Bishop Ronald Gainer presided as Mike Allen and his family were confirmed as Roman Catholics on Aug. 13.
Posted on 09/06/2005 8:57:27 AM PDT by NYer
A heartwarming story.
ping from a UM with a new ambiguously female minister... who is thinking about making the switch myself.
Marcus's show is on EWTN @ 8 pm EST..it is really riveting television.
I, too, am a United Methodist pastor and a graduate of Asbury Seminary. I think (not positive) that my path has crossed that of Mike Allen at some point. I have one other friend (pastor) who has gone Catholic (Byzantine), and I'm in occasional contact with him. He was a courageous pastor, and it was a loss for the denomination when he went elsewhere.
There are some appealing things about the Catholic Church, but there are also a few that I doubt could be overcome; not the least of which is my calling into ministry.
Nonetheless, I consider myself in both the spiritual and kingdom lineage of those on whom hands have been laid since the inception of the church.
The website, http://enarefem.org/, is by a Methodist/Asbury dropout into the Catholic Church. Some of its articles might be useful.
You are absolutely right. Marcus Grodi's show (which is on Mondays at 8:00 PM on EWTN) is my favorite TV show.
If you have access to cable, check with your local provider to see if they supply EWTN. Marcus Grodi hosts a live program on Monday evenings at 8pm.
In the meantime, you may enjoy listening to some of the previous programs, through Real Audio at this link:
Journey Home , click on 'Past Programs'.
Marcus also hosts his own web site - The Coming Home Network. The above link includes a separate link to that site.
We have several converts here in the forum, and others who, like you, are somewhere along their own journey. Should you have any questions or simply, please do not hesitate to ask.
Rest assured of my prayers for you and your family!
for some reason this link is not working for me.
I was once UMC. When it became clear that she had nothing of substance to offer I left her for something more satisfying.
Though, you are welcome to head back to Rome, and I'm sure they hold open the door for all Protestants who think that the Reformation was a mistake, I personally don't think that the RC has anything to offer either. When you set up a Religion where the Sacraments are controlled by the church instead of grace being free in the hands of the Lord, you set up an institution which is nothing more than a means of control by intimidation and fear. Just look at how Rome reacted to the Reformation by Trent.
Personally, I have found free grace to be much more satisfying.
***A heartwarming story.***
Wouldn't you agree Chaplain?
These are the sacraments of the Catholic faith:
Baptism
Eucharist
Reconciliation (Confession)
Confirmation (Chrismation)
Marriage
Holy Orders (Ordination)
Anointing of the Sick (Extreme Unction)
The indeed form the center of our spiritual life.
To learn more about Sacraments of the Catholic Church, visit The Seven Catholic Sacraments
see #5
This article appears to be pretty fair and balanced; even if I could never see myself becoming a roman catholic, for a number of reasons.
Yes, if you have bought into the idea that the church and the church alone by means of an alter Christus (I hope I remember my Latin right) and through the sacraments are how grace is given. Thankfully, grace is not trapped in an institution of men, but free. The only real fruit of claiming to be the sole means by which a man is able to get grace is that you get to hold your subject under penalty of removing grace from them and damning them.
God is free. Grace is free. No King but Jesus.
Correct and the Roman Catholic Church is not an institution of men. It is the physical manifestation of what Jesus laid out in Mathew 16.
This is what the Catholic Church really teaches:
Sacraments are outward signs of inward grace, instituted by Christ for our sanctification (Catechismus concil. Trident., n.4, ex S. Aug. "De Catechizandis rudibus").
[...]
Almighty God can and does give grace to men in answer to their internal aspirations and prayers without the use of any external sign or ceremony. This will always be possible, because God, grace, and the soul are spiritual beings. God is not restricted to the use of material, visible symbols in dealing with men; the sacraments are not necessary in the sense that they could not have been dispensed with. But, if it is known that God has appointed external, visible ceremonies as the means by which certain graces are to be conferred on men, then in order to obtain those graces it will be necessary for men to make use of those Divinely appointed means. This truth theologians express by saying that the sacraments are necessary, not absolutely but only hypothetically, i.e., in the supposition that if we wish to obtain a certain supernatural end we must use the supernatural means appointed for obtaining that end. In this sense the Council of Trent (Sess. VII, can. 4) declared heretical those who assert that the sacraments of the New Law are superfluous and not necessary, although all are not necessary for each individual. It is the teaching of the Catholic Church and of Christians in general that, whilst God was nowise bound to make use of external ceremonies as symbols of things spiritual and sacred, it has pleased Him to do so, and this is the ordinary and most suitable manner of dealing with men. Writers on the sacraments refer to this as the necessitas convenientiae, the necessity of suitableness. It is not really a necessity, but the most appropriate manner of dealing with creatures that are at the same time spiritual and corporeal. In this assertion all Christians are united: it is only when we come to consider the nature of the sacramental signs that Protestants (except some Anglicans) differ from Catholics. "To sacraments considered merely as outward forms, pictorial representations or symbolic acts, there is generally no objection", wrote Dr. Morgan Dix ("The sacramental system", New York, 1902, p. 16). "Of sacramental doctrine this may be said, that it is co-extensive with historic Christianity. Of this there is no reasonable doubt, as regards the very ancient days, of which St. Chrysostom's treatise on the priesthood and St. Cyril's catechetical lectures may be taken as characteristic documents. Nor was it otherwise with the more conservative of the reformed bodies of the sixteenth century. Martin Luther's Catechism, the Augsburg, and later the Westminster, Confessions are strongly sacramental in their tone, putting to shame the degenerate followers of those who compiled them" (ibid., p. 7, 8)
We have a former Methodist who is a priest here. The problem is that he hasn't really made the switch - possibly because he converted a long time ago, around the time of VatII, when people were not really challenged to accept the truth. He brought Methodist wishy-washiness to the Catholic Church, which did not exactly need it at that point...and he still seems to believe that the Church is one giant therapy/12-Step group, which is the current Methodist model.
Oddly enough, it seems that since the election of BXVI, he's been trying very hard to become Catholic. So maybe there's hope.
Lead Kindly Light Lead, kindly Light, amid the encircling gloom, Lead Thou me on! The night is dark, and I am far from home-- Lead Thou me on! Keep Thou my feet; I do not ask to see The distant scene--one step enough for me.
If you say so. Merely for the fact that, according to Roman dogma, I cannot receive grace except by your sacraments, you prove my point. Grace is not free.
You know, I have literally watched people get completely hysterical over the fact that their babies were not baptized. Rather than be a blessing and a comfort, I see fear. If a man in an institution does not perform the rite, grace is not given. I am told that babies who die before this rite go to Limbo.
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