A Purpose-Driven Nation? (Rick Warren goes to Rwanda)

Opinion Journal ^ | August 26, 2005 | ALAN WOLFE

[buckeyesrule]

Friday, August 26, 2005 12:01 a.m.

It is one thing to help 25 million readers find purpose in their lives. It is another when one of those readers is the man responsible for ending what journalist Samantha Power has called "the most clear-cut case of genocide since the Holocaust." Paul Kagame, Rwanda's president, was so impressed by Rick Warren's best-selling book, "The Purpose-Driven Life," that he invited the founding preacher of California's Saddleback Church to come to his country. Mr. Warren not only accepted but asked his network of believers to come to Rwanda in small groups to plant churches, care for the sick, educate the citizenry and assist the poor.

[nobdysfool]

You are out of your league.

I wouldn't be in any league that would have you as a member.

You crack me up...LOL

[HarleyD]

b-d, I would agree with you if this was a hundreds years ago. All those great men of faith that you've mentioned had one goal in mind and that was to bring people to Christ. But I'm not quite sure I understand the goals of going to Rwanda in a nation that already claims to be 95% Catholic.

Is Pastor Warren objective to use the Catholic Church to promote his PDL to have people come closer to God? Is he going to set up another church to counteract a lethargic Catholic Church? Is he going there to help the sick and for each one he'll present a copy of the PDL? What precisely is the mission?

Some people seem to be misconstruing that I'm attacking Pastor Warren. I am not. I simply think that the Rwanda President sees an opportunity to tell Pastor Warren what a wonderful book he has written and would he please bring it over and share (along with his Visa credit card).

You bring up a legitimate argument that perhaps we shouldn't worry about it and let God worry about it. But nowadays there are many places to place our faith and our money for there are many needs. Is this the right way to go about this? Keep in mind that some thought Heritage USA was a great idea at one time.

Somehow I'm just a little suspicious of this President's conversion. What is he doing for the country? Aren't we suppose to be wise as serpents and innocent as doves? Seems someone once said that.

[Corin Stormhands]

What i don't understand is why the moment anyone expresses reservations about his methods, it is viewed as an all-out assault on the man, worthy of an all-out counterattack.

Quite frankly nbf, it's simply because Warren has been so thoroughly trashed on FR, primarily by the GPRLs, that any criticism, even if valid (and I don't believe Harley's was) has to be assumed to be the first verse of "oh here we go again."

On this thread, you and Fru offered some reasonable statements acknowledging your reservations about Warren. Unfortunately, you're the exception in these discussions.

[cyborg]

This is wonderful. Christians doing the heavy lifting that libs won't do.

[cyborg]

Amen

[Frumanchu]

Being intelligent and having an attitude of intellectualism is not the same, but I suppose with your limitations, you can't understand the distinction.

I wasn't referring to any attitude of intellectualism when I made the statement. Confusing the supposed "attitude" of intellectuals with the use of intellect is only muddying the waters for the sake of splitting hairs.

As far as Jesus' "anti-intellectualist" attitude:

Romans 11:25 "I do not want you to be ignorant..."

1 Corinthians 10:1 "For I do not want you to be ignorant..."

1 Corinthians 12:1 "Now about spiritual gifts, brothers, I do not want you to be ignorant.."

1 Corinthians 15:4 "there are some who are ignorant of God—I say this to your shame"

1 Thessalonians 4:13 "Brothers, we do not want you to be ignorant..."

1 Peter 2:15 "For it is God's will that by doing good you should silence the ignorant talk of foolish men..."

2 Peter 3:16 "His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction."

[P-Marlowe]

Is he going there to help the sick and for each one he'll present a copy of the PDL? What precisely is the mission?

That's really pathetic Harley. You seem to have no limit to your cynicism of Rick Warren. What has he done to you to deserve that?

Frankly I don't think he knows what his mission is exactly, but I think he feels a real yearning in his heart to do "something". I suspect he will do whatever God leads him to do.

Did it ever occur to you that Pastor Warren was simply called of God to do something in that area?

I suppose not.

For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me. (Mat 25:35-40)

[Corin Stormhands]

Is he going there to help the sick and for each one he'll present a copy of the PDL?

So what if he did?

You wouldn't take a housewarming gift? You're obviously not southern.

[connectthedots]

I am intelligent enough to know that you cannot reconcile a loving God with your opinion that God simply decided who and who would not be saved and that there is nothing a man could do to change his destiny. No other Calvinist of your sort, even Edwin Palmer, has been able to do it.

All the Calvinist, at least your brand, can offer is "I don't know". If you don't know, you can't possibly know your opinion is true.

I have absolutely no problem reconciling a sovereign God with a man having a free will. It's really rather simple, but you are either too ignorant or blinded to the truth about it; that or stubborness.

[blue-duncan]

I think this is where a gift of the Holy Spirit comes in (He is God don't you know - an old joke). He gives the gift of giving as He wills. I have friends who are saved engineers, if you can believe that, and they will only give to missions connected with colleges and universities. You could not convince them to give to African missions unless it was connected to a Bible School or Seminary. But to those missions they are generous to a fault. I think it is just as wrong to give out of guilt, mob excitement, emotional pitches or elitism as it is not to give when called by God to do so. Paul says let a man put aside the gift as he has been lead.

However I think we are to be available and in an attitude of willingness to give sacrificially when called to do so by the Lord and not sitting back saying "convince me."

Alamo-Girl had a great quote from Oswald Chambers in todays devotions, "Daily Reflections with Oswald Chambers [August 29, 2005]", " Can you trust Jesus Christ where your common sense cannot trust Him?" A lot of times this is where we are in giving or trusting someone else's ministry when we are called to give. The early church had it figured out. They would rather have been taken advantage of than miss an opportunity to give a cup of water in Jesus' name.

[Zack Nguyen]

Mr. Warren not only accepted but asked his network of believers to come to Rwanda in small groups to plant churches, care for the sick, educate the citizenry and assist the poor.

If Africa is going to be changed, this is how it will be done.

[buckeyesrule]

My niece and her husband are in Burkina Faso.

[Frumanchu]

CTD, your post has nothing to do with either my comments or the original post. I have no desire to rehash this same tired line of argumentation. Please do not post to me any more in this thread unless you wish to discuss the subject at hand.

Have a nice day.

[nobdysfool]

I think the point Harley is driving at is that a lot of people do a lot of things out of their own ideas of "doing something for Jesus", without really counting the cost, or doing the due diligence to seek the Lord as to whether or not that is what He wants them to do. Counting the cost is not just in reference to money, because Warren's got plenty of that, it is counting the spiritual cost.

Frankly I don't think he knows what his mission is exactly, but I think he feels a real yearning in his heart to do "something". I suspect he will do whatever God leads him to do.

I simply don't buy into the idea of accepting anything and everything ostensibly being done for the Lord as being pleasing to Him. Activity for activity's sake is not a biblical model. There are times where a need may be seen, and the Lord may specifically say "no". Paul wanted to go into Asia Minor, and he was forbidden to do so by the Lord. Was there a need for the gospel there? Most certainly! But God specifically told Paul NOT to go there, when Paul wanted to do so.

I don't think it's pathetic of Harley to voice reservations about Warren's reasons for going to Rwanda. What is pathetic is just rubber stamping everything the guy does just because he's been successful. To many people are blinded by Warren's success.

[Alamo-Girl]

Thank you so much for the ping and for mentioning the Chambers' devotion!

Alamo-Girl had a great quote from Oswald Chambers in todays devotions, "Daily Reflections with Oswald Chambers [August 29, 2005]", " Can you trust Jesus Christ where your common sense cannot trust Him?" A lot of times this is where we are in giving or trusting someone else's ministry when we are called to give. The early church had it figured out. They would rather have been taken advantage of than miss an opportunity to give a cup of water in Jesus' name.

So very true. When the Spirit leads us to do a thing, such as a donation or helping someone or speaking up or not - we must do it - otherwise we are effectively telling God that we don't trust Him.

[P-Marlowe]

Here's a little blurb from the same author that you and Harley seem to agree on. In this essay he chides Warren for not being concerned enough about the world. Then when Warren takes on a world mission, Wolfe chides him for his naievite.

Just like on this thread, Warren seems to be damned if he does and damned if he doesn't. At any rate this blurb from Alan Wolfe is quite interesting:

Warren is certainly not a Calvinist in the strict sense of the term; his disposition is too sunny and his preference for love over intellect is too pronounced to find much in common with Geneva’s great reformer. Yet Warren does, in his own way, rely on one important element in the Calvinist tradition: its insistence on predestination. To be sure, we are not talking here about such ideas as “double predestination” in which the fates of both those who are saved and those who are not are decided in advance; there would not be much to say about a purpose-driven life if all life’s purposes were so tightly scripted. Still, Warren’s avoidance of the more positive view of human nature admired by Augustine does lead him in the direction of those leaders of the Protestant Reformation who opted for a narrower conception of human ability than those, often described as Arminian, who viewed people as agents whose salvation could be influenced by their own actions.

Emphasis added.

Wolfe continues:

For one thing, Warren makes no bones about his explicit commitments to Christianity; The Purpose-Driven Life is bound to be discomforting to Jews, Muslims, and even Christians who do not share an evangelical perspective on their faith. Indeed, so strong are Warren’s religious convictions that one cannot find in his book a definition of what purpose is divorced from Christian language...

To lead a purposeful life, as Warren tells the story, God’s plans are all that matter, not yours. Indeed you do not really have a plan because everything was decided before you were born. “Not only did God shape you before your birth, He planned every day of your life to support His shaping process,” Warren writes. This does not leave us without decisions to make; we are obligated to serve God, but how we do so – how we shape ourselves to discover how He shaped us – does depend on the way we understand our experiences in everyday life and turn them into opportunities for service. God gives us great things, but it is up to us to use them purposefully.

Wolfe doesn't particularly like Warren's emphasis on God and Jesus and then chides him for his being too heavenly minded:

A faith-driven life? A life devoted to Jesus? Those objectives are clear, and for people who seek them, and who seek a sense of purpose through them, Warren’s book, as its success suggests, has been a great boon. But by its very anchoring in evangelicalism, Warren’s understanding of what purpose requires will fall flat to those more focused on the world around them than on the eternity that awaits them.

[cyborg]

Christians have ALWAYS done the heavy lifting. My uncle was a mission priest in Africa during the colonial days. Life wasn't peachy keen then either. All the poor in Africa ever had was God and His willing missonaries.

[connectthedots]

Sometimes, one can only chuckle at those with a blind hatred for for evcerything Warren.

[HarleyD]

"That's really pathetic Harley. You seem to have no limit to your cynicism of Rick Warren. What has he done to you to deserve that?"

Hey, I get criticized. Why should he be any different?

Your accusation is unfounded. You'll be hard press to find one Rick Warren thread where I have participated let alone level any criticism at the gentleman. Even on this thread I have tried to make it painfully obvious that I am not criticizing the man. I think he is being DUPED!!!

However, when did you ever try to read and UNDERSTAND what I'm stating. That was never your strong point.

[HarleyD]

Thank you and A-G for those thoughtful and insightful responses. It's in short supply these days. :O)

I think this is an excellent comment:

"I think it is just as wrong to give out of guilt, mob excitement, emotional pitches or elitism as it is not to give when called by God to do so. Paul says let a man put aside the gift as he has been lead."

This seems to be the bottom line and God's will will be done.