Catholic Caucus: Sunday Mass Readings, 06-26-05

USCCB.org/New American Bible ^ | 06-26-05 | New American Bible

[Salvation]

June 26, 2005
Thirteenth Sunday in Ordinary Time

Psalm: Sunday 29

Reading I
2 Kgs 4:8-11, 14-16a

One day Elisha came to Shunem,
where there was a woman of influence, who urged him to dine with her.
Afterward, whenever he passed by, he used to stop there to dine.
So she said to her husband, "I know that Elisha is a holy man of God.
Since he visits us often, let us arrange a little room on the roof
and furnish it for him with a bed, table, chair, and lamp,
so that when he comes to us he can stay there."
Sometime later Elisha arrived and stayed in the room overnight.

Later Elisha asked, "Can something be done for her?"
His servant Gehazi answered, "Yes!
She has no son, and her husband is getting on in years."
Elisha said, "Call her."
When the woman had been called and stood at the door,
Elisha promised, "This time next year
you will be fondling a baby son."

Responsorial Psalm
Ps 89:2-3, 16-17, 18-19

R. (2a) For ever I will sing the goodness of the Lord.
The promises of the LORD I will sing forever,
through all generations my mouth shall proclaim your faithfulness.
For you have said, "My kindness is established forever;"
in heaven you have confirmed your faithfulness.
R. For ever I will sing the goodness of the Lord.
Blessed the people who know the joyful shout;
in the light of your countenance, O LORD, they walk.
At your name they rejoice all the day,
and through your justice they are exalted.
R. For ever I will sing the goodness of the Lord.
You are the splendor of their strength,
and by your favor our horn is exalted.
For to the LORD belongs our shield,
and the Holy One of Israel, our king.
R. For ever I will sing the goodness of the Lord.

Reading II
Rom 6:3-4, 8-11

Brothers and sisters:
Are you unaware that we who were baptized into Christ Jesus
were baptized into his death?
We were indeed buried with him through baptism into death,
so that, just as Christ was raised from the dead
by the glory of the Father,
we too might live in newness of life.

If, then, we have died with Christ,
we believe that we shall also live with him.
We know that Christ, raised from the dead, dies no more;
death no longer has power over him.
As to his death, he died to sin once and for all;
as to his life, he lives for God.
Consequently, you too must think of yourselves as dead to sin
and living for God in Christ Jesus.

Gospel
Mt 10:37-42

Jesus said to his apostles:
"Whoever loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me,
and whoever loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me;
and whoever does not take up his cross
and follow after me is not worthy of me.
Whoever finds his life will lose it,
and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it.
Whoever receives you receives me,
and whoever receives me receives the one who sent me.
Whoever receives a prophet because he is a prophet
will receive a prophet's reward,
and whoever receives a righteous man
because he is a righteous man
will receive a righteous man's reward.
And whoever gives only a cup of cold water
to one of these little ones to drink
because the little one is a disciple--
amen, I say to you, he will surely not lose his reward."

[A CA Guy]

I agree with you, and that is happening because many of the younger generation growing up are far more responsible and conservative than the recent generations before it.

[Ronaldus Magnus]

I find the stubborn part of the pro-life movement that goes for the 100% or nothing to be a detriment to life and to be on the extremest/obsessive side.

There you go again, more mindless pro-abortion propaganda. The straw man position you've been beating up on has nothing to do with real pro-lifers, and you know it. For the sixth time, National Right-To-Life has been willing to accept any limitation on abortion for over thirty years.

I am pro-life

Hardly. If you were than you wouldn't be condemning real pro-lifers for imaginary transgressions in the third party voice. Your false pro-life position is increasingly transparent.

I love God and struggle as much as any guys trying to live by His rules and all

Sure you do...

but I do think I deal with reality far better than the extremist among the pro-life movement.

You really need to do a better job hiding your hatred of the pro-life movement if you want to deceive people over with all your false sympathy.

I share the same goals of the most extreme pro-life person in wanting no death

You mean the ones you just called extremists?

I just don't believe in self-sabotage of progress toward the goal by being obsessed with the all or nothing.

I don't know about that, but you clearly believe in "them-sabotage" with "them" being the pro-life movement.

Things just don't work that way unless you like to get nothing as a result all the time.

From what you've said here, it is clear that your real intent is that pro-lifers get nothing. You are just like the seminar callers on the conservative talk radio shows, and equally ineffective. Using false concern as a vehicle for deceptively destructive advice is a tactic of loosers.

[Ronaldus Magnus]

We should all rejoice that the number of abortions performed in the US is continuing its steady drop

Just like Presidents Clinton's "keep abortion safe, legal, and rare" pronouncement. No, a declining abortion rate is a sign of hope but the rejoicing should wait until the murders stop and all innocent human life is legally protected.

[annalex]

Mt 10:37-42
#	Douay-Rheims	Vulgate
37	He that loveth father or mother more than me, is not worthy of me; and he that loveth son or daughter more than me, is not worthy of me.	qui amat patrem aut matrem plus quam me non est me dignus et qui amat filium aut filiam super me non est me dignus
38	And he that taketh not up his cross, and followeth me, is not worthy of me.	et qui non accipit crucem suam et sequitur me non est me dignus
39	He that findeth his life, shall lose it: and he that shall lose his life for me, shall find it.	qui invenit animam suam perdet illam et qui perdiderit animam suam propter me inveniet eam
40	He that receiveth you, receiveth me: and he that receiveth me, receiveth him that sent me.	qui recipit vos me recipit et qui me recipit recipit eum qui me misit
41	He that receiveth a prophet in the name of a prophet, shall receive the reward of a prophet: and he that receiveth a just man in the name of a just man, shall receive the reward of a just man.	qui recipit prophetam in nomine prophetae mercedem prophetae accipiet et qui recipit iustum in nomine iusti mercedem iusti accipiet
42	And whosoever shall give to drink to one of these little ones a cup of cold water only in the name of a disciple, amen I say to you he shall not lose his reward.	et quicumque potum dederit uni ex minimis istis calicem aquae frigidae tantum in nomine discipuli amen dico vobis non perdet mercedem suam

[annalex]

Saint Prophet Elisha

Contemporary Icon, Ioan Popei, Iconographer

[annalex]

It would be nice to stop some abortions. For example, if someone proposes a legislation that redheaded parents should not be allowed to abort their child, I think we all would support that, despite the utter absurdity of relating the crime of abortion to the color of someone's hair.

Likewise, the honest people should indicate that they will agree to any restriction on the current barbarious abortion regime, no matter how absurd.

At the same time, any attempt to exempt the crime of abortion in the cases of rape or incest from the objectives of fundamental liberty and justice for all is undermining the very foundation of these principles. As a deal with murderers, it has merits. As a political platform, it is garbage.

[bornacatholic]

You want to begin by approving the death of innocents. That defeats your "pro life" arguement 100% of the time and reduces your "principles" to nothing.

[Ciexyz]

Another option is that families continue to give moral support to their young people when unplanned pregnancies develop. That goes to members of extended families also.

[A CA Guy]

You need to read what I said.

I don't approve of any abortions, but in our country, no such law can pass.
So, we have to go for no abortions except for rape, incest, and the death risk of mothers with a pregnancy. We do that and we save 750,000 a year.
It's better to save the 750,000 year first IMO.
Later your fight is for the remainder and it will be always for one life at a time.

[A CA Guy]

And if you vote like you express your view, you continue to condom to death an extra 750,000 a year in the name of your hoity toity principles.

I think we deal with reality instead and get the majority of babies killed to be born, then fight for the few left over that aren't covered by law.

It just makes no sense to me to not stop the part of the Holocaust you can because of your principles.

[A CA Guy]

What I hate is getting an extra 750,000 a year dead because of the all or nothing attitude.
What I don't like about the obsessed part of the pro-life movement is the lack of common sense about what we can and can not get through to the voters.

What I want is to first get the 750,000 saved and then to continue with the remaining 2% as we do now the 100%.

It's a cute theological argument you have going, but while you express your piety, some 3/4 of a million a year are dying that need not because we can get most of our platform passed.
But if we have the most obsessed wing of the pro-life movement blocking the saving of all the lives we could save, that is pointless to me.

[annalex]

Why, I think I made it clear that I'll vote for any reduction in the number of abortions, no matter how absurd. But I will not water down my pro-life principles with that vote. If one baby is allowed by law to be murdered, our duty remains to prevent that murder.

[A CA Guy]

I'm 100% with you in that. We need to do whatever it takes to fight for the life we can get through law, and then we still have the battle for the rest one at a time.

All innocent new born life is precious and I would never suggest we no try to influence the stopping of all abortions.

[Ronaldus Magnus]

What I hate is getting an extra 750,000 a year dead because of the all or nothing attitude.

No one here has an "all or nothing attitude", your straw man argument has been exposed.

What I don't like about the obsessed part of the pro-life movement

You mean the imaginary part of the pro-life movement you just made up?

It's a cute theological argument you have going,

This is just another fallacious straw man. I haven't put forth any theological argument.

But if we have the most obsessed wing of the pro-life movement blocking the saving of all the lives we could save, that is pointless to me.

Your repeated use of the the third person voice to attack the pro-life movement has exposed you as the pro-abortion troll you are.

[Ronaldus Magnus]

I think I made it clear that I'll vote for any reduction in the number of abortions, no matter how absurd. But I will not water down my pro-life principles with that vote.

All pro-lifers agree with the statement above, and I have made it more than a half dozen times now on this thread. The poster you replied to has been exposed as a pro-abortion troll claiming to be pro-life in order to attack real pro-lifers over a false allegation.

[A CA Guy]

Well, if that is the case, I guess only the most extreme get the press or on TV.

[Ronaldus Magnus]

Giving moral and even financial support to anyone with unplanned pregnancies should be a responsibility of families, churches, and even governments. However, abortion is always wrong regardless of the level of support that is offered.

[bornacatholic]

And if you vote like you express your view, you continue to condom to death an extra 750,000 a year in the name of your hoity toity principles.

*look, nobody is buying your nonsense. So, you up the ante and charge with "condemning to death" one with consistent pro-life principles, which you label "hoity toity".

That is both illogical and nasty.

I think Ronaldus Magnus has you pinned

[A CA Guy]

If you all are pushing for no abortion except for rape, incest and the possible death issues of the mother in birth as a step toward the abolishment of no abortion, we have NO disagreement.

The ones that poo poo the above and insist on 100% ONLY (which I do believe exists in good numbers), should go for the other part first and fight for the rest later as we can. That was the nature and context of that statement.

We agree from what I see that it would be stupid to not save what we can first and to fight for the rest as we can also.

[Ronaldus Magnus]

Lately I've noticed an increase in these "seminar caller" type posters who use false pretenses to slander conservative principles. These liberals pretend to be conservatives in order to have more credibility in their attacks on real conservative than they would if they were honest about their liberal bias. They are usually easy to identify by their tendency to repeatedly misstate conservative positions and then attack conservatives over the fault they themselves just fabricated. They also refuse to respond to any rebuttals or corrections of their false characterizations. This one was easy to identify because he was dumb enough to talk about conservatives as "you" and "they" while simultaneously claiming to be a "true conservative" himself as he attacked something he made up about conservatives.