Posted on 05/25/2005 8:09:49 AM PDT by xzins
It will be a sad day when those who have refused to wait on the LORD will come to realize their foolishness. But as sad as it will be for the foolish, it will be gloriously joyful for those who did wait for the LORD. He is worth the wait! How about you, are you waiting for the LORD? He is calling to you now and He is saying, "Wait for Me."
I'll read it later. I have to take off for a while.
Bookmarking for later. It's a busy day.
Temporally they are children of wrath until the time when they are saved by grace. Eternally they have been saved from the foundation of the earth (outside of time) in the infinite foreknowledge of God.
To add to what you've said, I really have no problem with the foreknowledge of God also being a "loving" foreknowing.
I've got to depart. Won't return until tomorrow or very late tonight.
This is very good, thanks!
And since God "foreknows" with certainty that they are saved, then there is no chance whatsoever that they will NOT be saved.
Is this correct?
Depends on the amount of faith that we have. God gave us free will and some are not willing to go to god. Does this help?
God gave us our free will. And who gives us our faith?
BTTT
Matthew 6:24 - "No one can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or else he will be loyal to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and mammon."
What does the word "mammon" mean? Study the constuction:
It begins with the letter mem, which is often used to form abstract nouns. Example: the noun "knowledge" from the verb "to know". Or it can denote places, say Magog from Gog.
In the case of "mammon", it is the noun formed from the root amn:
0539 'aman {aw-man'}
a primitive root; TWOT - 116; v
AV - believe 44, assurance 1, faithful 20, sure 11, established 7,
trust 5, verified 3, stedfast 2, continuance 2, father 2, bring up 4,
nurse 2, be nursed 1, surely be 1, stand fast 1, fail 1, trusty 1; 108
1) to support, confirm, be faithful
1a) (Qal)
1a1) to support, confirm, be faithful, uphold, nourish
1a1a) foster-father (subst.)
1a1b) foster-mother, nurse
1a1c) pillars, supporters of the door
1b) (Niphal)
1b1) to be established, be faithful, be carried, make firm
1b1a) to be carried by a nurse
1b1b) made firm, sure, lasting
1b1c) confirmed, established, sure
1b1d) verified, confirmed
1b1e) reliable, faithful, trusty
1c) (Hiphil)
1c1) to stand firm, to trust, to be certain, to believe in
1c1a) stand firm
1c1b) trust, believe
This is the also the root of "amen" (verily, truly). Mem + amn becomes an abstract noun denoting "that in which one trusts" or "that in which one's confidence is placed". In the verse above, serving mammon is clearly contrasted with serving YHVH. That is, one cannot honestly trust in (or be loyal to) YHVH and other things (gods, idols) simultaneously. Torah states plainly:
Exodus 20:1-6
1 And God spake all these words, saying,
2 I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:
5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
The Strong's definition states:
3126 mammonas {mam-mo-nas'}
of Aramaic origin (confidence, i.e. wealth, personified);
TDNT - 4:388,552; n m
AV - mammon 4; 4
1) mammon
2) treasure
3) riches (where it is personified and opposed to God)
***
Mammon = other gods, where or in what or whom trust is placed outside of YHVH.
To come full circle, here is the verse [referenced above] again in its context:
Matthew 6:19-24
19 Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal:
20 But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:
21 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.
22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single (sound), thy whole body shall be full of light.
23 But if thine eye be evil (unsound), thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness!
24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.
A contrast of eyes:
Genesis 13:10-17
10 And Lot lifted up his eyes, and beheld all the plain of Jordan, that it was well watered every where, before the LORD destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah, even as the garden of the LORD, like the land of Egypt, as thou comest unto Zoar.
11 Then Lot chose him all the plain of Jordan; and Lot journeyed east: and they separated themselves the one from the other.
12 Abram dwelled in the land of Canaan, and Lot dwelled in the cities of the plain, and pitched his tent toward Sodom.
13 But the men of Sodom were wicked and sinners before the LORD exceedingly.
14 And the LORD said unto Abram, after that Lot was separated from him, Lift up now thine eyes, and look from the place where thou art northward, and southward, and eastward, and westward:
15 For all the land which thou seest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed for ever.
16 And I will make thy seed as the dust of the earth: so that if a man can number the dust of the earth, then shall thy seed also be numbered.
17 Arise, walk through the land in the length of it and in the breadth of it; for I will give it unto thee.
P.S. the Rapture is a false doctrine.
So are the people who believe in it going to go to hell?
Their fate is only sealed inasmuch as God foreknows their fate, not inasmuch as there is nothing they can do about it. Temporally they can accept or reject the grace of God. Temporally the future is still open. Eternally (outside the dimension of time) God already knows their choices.
Quick question: Does prayer change things?
I still don't understand why people think Zephaniah refers to the end times except for that "day of the Lord" thingy. I don't much care for commentaries that pick and choose their verses. One can make the scriptures say anything; including and excluding what you want. I noticed in both threads with Zephaniah that both authors leave out what I would consider a key verse:
This doesn't fit with their soteriology so they just conveniently leave it out.
Here is another and better commentary on Zephaniah.
That is pretty profound. A lot of people think waiting on the Lord means to just be in some kind of spiritual meditation, but the phrasal verb means to serve.
Phrasal Verbs:
wait on or upon
God gave us our free will. And who gives us our faith?
If your faith is not strong enough, there is the possibility of turning the other way. Faith is something that you gain over the years, it goes along with free will. If faith was given to us by god, would we have athiest?
God sees our faith, or lack there of.
Why ask me? I don't determine their eternal destinations.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.