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Catholic Liturgy - More on Blessings for Non-communicants
Zenit News Agency ^ | May 24, 2005 | Father Edward McNamara

Posted on 05/24/2005 4:00:52 PM PDT by NYer

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To: Romulus

One man's scruples are called another man's rubrics. But don't let that get in the way of your personal preference, which is what this all boils down to.

Personal preference over rubrics and pastoral solicitude.


81 posted on 05/25/2005 1:42:42 PM PDT by Mershon
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To: Romulus; annalex

"Perhaps you consider the NO rite incapable of confecting a valid Sacrament."

Your two feigned "holy than thou," "we are with the Church" attitude has crossed way over the lines of charity here. Te lucis told you what he meant, therefore you should accept it.

And I don't recall him every saying ANYTHING about the NO rite being incapable of confecting the sacrament. Those are words you put into his mouth. I hereby acknowledge and profess the Novus Ordo rite is capable, when certain proscribed conditions are followed, of confecting the sacrament. I would venture to guess that EVERY Novus Ordo rite Mass in the U.S. on a weekly basis does not ALWAYS confect the sacrament. In fact, my confirmation Mass and my wedding Mass were BOTH invalid in the early 1980s.

I wonder how many Traditional Latin Masses, even those said by priests of the SSPX, are INVALID? Hmmm????


82 posted on 05/25/2005 1:47:14 PM PDT by Mershon
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To: Mershon
Personal preference over rubrics and pastoral solicitude.

Hardly.

"As the dicastery charged by our Holy Father with carrying out the provisions of his Apostolic Letter Ecclesia Dei, this Pontifical Commission and only this Pontifical Commission has the right to make provisions regarding the use of the 1962 Roman Missal. No group outside of and independent of the Holy See has the authority to decide on what provisions of previous documents are binding or to rule on what constitutes an illegitimate "interchanging of texts and rites". Quattuor abhinc annos also prohibited the celebration of the Mass according to the 1962 Roman Missal in parish churches except in extraordinary cases which were to be determined by the diocesan bishop, but we note that no one is interested in insisting on that condition."

83 posted on 05/25/2005 1:54:01 PM PDT by Romulus (Der Inn fließt in den Tiber.)
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To: Mershon; Romulus; te lucis
Te lucis told you what he meant, therefore you should accept it.

When Te Lucis explains to me how "swallow" and "pun intended" in #42 squares with the assertion that he was referring to "the unwarranted use of EEMs, altar girls, etc" and not to the Holy Communion itself in #62, I will take his #62 as truthful and retract my accusation in #68.

84 posted on 05/25/2005 1:56:49 PM PDT by annalex
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To: Romulus

So where is the document from Ecclesia Dei Commission authorizing laymen to distribute Holy Communion?


85 posted on 05/25/2005 1:57:06 PM PDT by Mershon
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To: annalex; te lucis; murphE
It refers to people lining up to swallow garbage, and concludes that the pun was intended.

"Garbage" refered to NO abuses. People "lining up to swallow it" - "swallowing" meaning accepting and "it" meaning abuses was the pun, since the specific abuse being discussed/debated was EEMs.

I saw no "posturing," either. Its no secret many on this forum want Trads banned, and they have been sucessful recently in getting rid of many of them in a short time span. The process for getting a trad banned begins with jumping on something which can be taken more than one way followed by a ping to RM.

You are a poseur and a liar.

You should "befriend" tl before pointing out his/her errors, dontcha think? :-D
86 posted on 05/25/2005 1:58:24 PM PDT by sempertrad
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To: visualops

Dittos here, I'm annulling, she's converting. Our parish is small enough though, that everyone knows each other, and Father remembers to bless us rather than offer a host.


87 posted on 05/25/2005 1:59:51 PM PDT by Alas Babylon!
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To: gbcdoj; Romulus

While Cardinal Hoyos' private correspondence to Michael Davies may be true currently, I would posit that as a private correspondence, and not as a publicly promulgated document, its binding force and interpretation on all Catholics is questionable at best.


88 posted on 05/25/2005 2:00:55 PM PDT by Mershon
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To: Mershon
I hereby acknowledge and profess the Novus Ordo rite is capable, when certain proscribed conditions are followed, of confecting the sacrament.

Good. So you should join me in encouraging him to clean up the mess he made.

89 posted on 05/25/2005 2:00:57 PM PDT by Romulus (Der Inn fließt in den Tiber.)
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To: gbcdoj

But it is possible that while the law might prohibit a priest from being forced to use altar girls, what I "heard" might not be "wrong" since we know that the law oftentimes does not reflect the reality.


90 posted on 05/25/2005 2:03:55 PM PDT by sempertrad
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To: sempertrad; annalex
You should "befriend" tl before pointing out his/her errors, dontcha think? :-D

You are a poseur and a liar.

That does sound a bit triumphalistic doesn't it? I guess it's OK to call names, it just depends who does it to whom.

91 posted on 05/25/2005 2:04:31 PM PDT by murphE (These are days when the Christian is expected to praise every creed but his own. --G.K. Chesterton)
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To: sempertrad; te lucis

The request was specifically to remove the blasphemous paragraph of the post, the only clean way out of this. It remains the only clean way, and the spin you put on it makes it worse.

I consider the bannings of traditionalists here completely unwarranted. I am generally sympathetic with Catholic traditionalism.

I consider every Freeper, including, of course, Te Lucis and other Catholics of every persuasion, my friend (*), and I continue to communicate with them.

(*) Semptertrad's oblique reference was to an unrelated thread where I defended the Church communicating in a friendly manner with non-Christians, while others advocated not communicating.


92 posted on 05/25/2005 2:07:03 PM PDT by annalex
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To: murphE

See my post above and also #84


93 posted on 05/25/2005 2:08:43 PM PDT by annalex
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To: sempertrad; annalex; te lucis; murphE; Romulus
Like it or not, certain self-identified traditionalists on this forum have, in the past, blasphemed against the Blessed Sacrament, by referring to It as the "novus ordo cookie" and similar.

TL's comment in #42 (including the "pun intended" part) was, at best, intemperate and ill advised. The "preview" feature in the posting page is quite valuable, and for more than just making sure the HTML is correct. Similarly, the standard PS/2 keyboard has a Backspace key and two Delete keys. Sometimes it's best to use them, rather than post that oh-so-clever sarcastic remark.

A word (or two) to the wise.

94 posted on 05/25/2005 2:09:49 PM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilisation is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: Mershon
as a private correspondence, and not as a publicly promulgated document, its binding force and interpretation on all Catholics is questionable at best.

LOL; you mean like this one?

95 posted on 05/25/2005 2:09:52 PM PDT by Romulus (Der Inn fließt in den Tiber.)
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To: Romulus
You made the equation of garbage with the Blessed Sacrament impossible to avoid, and you did so by intent.

Apparently this equation was not impossible to avoid, because I completely missed it. I had no idea what you were going on about until I read this post, saying what you thought t.l. meant.

96 posted on 05/25/2005 2:13:50 PM PDT by murphE (These are days when the Christian is expected to praise every creed but his own. --G.K. Chesterton)
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To: murphE
I completely missed it.

Very sporting of you to admit it, but things move better when everyone tries to keep up.

97 posted on 05/25/2005 2:20:39 PM PDT by Romulus (Der Inn fließt in den Tiber.)
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To: annalex; Romulus
The request was specifically to remove the blasphemous paragraph of the post

There was no blasphemy. Just because you took it as such, doesn't mean that how it was meant. It was clear to me what tl meant by the pun. How? By taking into account tl's support for the SSPX (made evident by the tagline) the TLM, etc. Say whatever one will about "SSPXers", or "trads" such people generally don't intentionally spew blasphemies.

It remains the only clean way, and the spin you put on it makes it worse.

Spin? I my comments expressed how I viewed the comment. "Makes it worse?" It was made worse by an assumption of blasphemy and a ping to RM without even the courtesy of asking tl what he/she meant first.
98 posted on 05/25/2005 2:22:03 PM PDT by sempertrad
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To: Romulus

"Are you a permanent deacon?"

Yes - whatever permanent means, and assuming I don't transfer rites! ;)


99 posted on 05/25/2005 2:23:24 PM PDT by Tantumergo
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To: te lucis

"If the Scripture is not understood in light of the teaching of the Catholic Church, yes."

And why would I not understand Scripture in the light of the teaching of the Catholic Church?


100 posted on 05/25/2005 2:25:41 PM PDT by Tantumergo
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