Reflections of Cardinal Ratzinger on the Eucharist

"We are related, through spirit: a gongregation of the faithful, united around Christ; the Church. That congregation deos not have a physicial place, nor is it limited in time. The Lord's Supper is transcendental -- it is not "repeated" in the spiritual sense but "ongoing." The community of the faithful, likewise, is not a physicial congregation in one place and with certain individuals only. Our community is common unity in spirit and faith in our Lord for all times."

Well, sort of; I suppose that's a way, perhaps a very expansive way, to look at things but it isn't how +Ignatius of Antioch spoke of the Church:

" Where the bishop appears, there let the people be, just as where Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church (Smyrn. 8.2)"

Orthodoxy teaches that we are a Liturgical people. The Liturgy can never be prayed alone. And it is in the Liturgy that we receive the Eucharist.

Deborah, like Agrarian I found your use of the word lonely off putting, but I understand your point. I enjoyed reading your quote from +John of the Cross, but as you said, these comments are for someone very advanced in theosis, perhaps more advanced than many of the most spiritual of our monastics; in other words, these are rungs far up the Ladder of Divine Ascent. To get there takes a long time and a lot of work, work which Orthodoxy maintains should not be done alone. The other night I was discussing +John of the Cross, +John of the Ladder and Thomas Merton with an Orthodox friend. He and I both observed how Merton, especially after he went out into a hermitage against the counsel of his spiritual father, became more and more bizarre, almost pagan in his theology of the Dark Night of the Soul and once he had gone beyond Western monastic practice and thought, rather than turn to the older monastic tradition of the Christian East, he went off to Asia and Buddhist practice. As my friend noted, it was Merton's abbot who had it right, but the partisans of Merton have always made him out the bad guy. It is a exceedingly dangerous journey, spiritually, that +John of the Cross made, preceded by many monks of Orthodoxy and the Western Church. In the end they stood before our Ineffable God alone, but they got up that Ladder by submitting to the counsel of their elders and learning and transforming within their monastic communities and trust me, it wasn't a straight up ascent. I sincerely recommend reading the Ladder of Divine Ascent by +John of the Ladder, beginning at the first rung.

Deborah, like Agrarian I found your use of the word lonely off putting,

I'm sorry you feel that way. Many of the great saints explained the purging of the lower self in likewise and even worse terms. It is a difficult phase.

"I'm sorry you feel that way."

Don't be! :)

Well,I'm not sure what you mean by exterior vs. interior, and therefore have no way of knowing whether we are talking about the same thing or not. The Orthodox spiritual life is built around close interior self-observation. It has been described as "experimental" by some modern Orthodox writers, in the sense that one follows the guidance of the Church, observes the interior effect that this has, discusses the changes with a spiritual guide to make sure that one is not deceiving oneself, etc...

Of course, the "hard evidence" of interior transformation is in external changes -- so in such discussions the internal and external are usually inextricably tied together.

We still may be completely talking at cross-purposes, though. I'll take your word for it that we are. I may be so immersed in the Orthodox way of thinking and talking about the spiritual life that I may find it difficult to follow what is being said about Catholic approaches.

"you are not alone"

Classic Orthodox statement.

Also I was just reading last night one of my favorite Hopko writings. He said there is no such thing as an individual Christian.

Count me with Agrarian on this one. It's over the top.

We cannot choose to be good. We can only become good through faith and with the help of God, never on our own.

Very, very nicely put. Your statement puts down the concept of pre-destination but retains the belief of an all-merciful, ever-loving and helping God.

Orthodoxy teaches that we are a Liturgical people. The Liturgy can never be prayed alone. And it is in the Liturgy that we receive the Eucharist

Well, Elder Cleopa used to muse that at times his only "congregation" was a flock of ravens, and his altar was a tree stump. If there is no priest around, of course there can be no Eucharist. God understands and forgives who repent and ask for it. I am sure of that. God is not a legalist.

Which part of Thomas Merlton do you find objectionable? I take it that you have read his works (i.e. New Seeds of Contemplation).

As for +Ignatius, Church Father of all sorts have said all sorts of things. They are not without error, nor are they without sin.

Also I was just reading last night one of my favorite Hopko writings. He said there is no such thing as an individual Christian

A fine example of a "true" Orthodox mind, Fr. Hopko.

Agrarian understood me: we cannot seek salvation among people, so there is no "lateral salvation." He also understood what I said about community -- one does not transform into a God-centered person and not extend his love to others. To the contrary! The more we advance in thoesis the more we can love our enemies, the more we forgive them, the more we can pray for their salvation. One should not do good and expect salvation in return. When one becomes good, he will do good because good cannot do anything but good

There is a plenitude of examples of solitude as being the transforming vehicle in many a Christian, even a Saint. I have already posted the official (Russia) Orthodox Catechism that leaves no doubt that each and every one of us experiences God in a very personal and unique manner and not as some "mass consciousness" or "communal grace." It leaves no doubt that our faith is a very personal and very individual reality. Unless some care to characterize Russian Orthodoxy as "unorthodox."

Solitude frees us from temptations and distractions, from passions and ultimately from sin. The more energy we spend on worldly realities, the more we separate from God and continue to sin. Clearly, theosis cannot advance by being intimately tied to the material and physical and devoting time to God when it's convenient.

Here is an excerpt from an article entitled The Spiritual Father in Orthodox Christianity

he withdrew for thirty years of solitude and almost total silence

lived rigidly enclosed in his cell, which he did not leave even to attend services in church; on Sundays the priest brought communion to him at the door of his room

One, +Seraphim spent time alone and without anyone around him. Having been a priest, he did not celebrate the Divine Liturgy. He did not have the Eucharist sitting on a tree stump. He did not participate in communal life nor in a community. Did that make him less of a priest, less of an Orthodox Christian? Not if he was in repentence. And the only one he had to share his self-accusation was Christ. I am sure he did not feel alone for one moment with such Company. Yes Kolo, +Ignatius is right: Church is where Christ is; and Christ is everywhere. But sometimes I wonder if there is truly one Orthodox Church.

nice post kosta. Thanks.

Thanks.