Episcopal Bishops consider gutting confirmation

<strike>Wannabe</strike> Newbie Anglican ^ | 3/15/2005 | Mark Marshall

[sionnsar]

I will say this -- that many good Anglicans have kept thinking that the ECUSA will change and they have stuck on and now they are being tarnished by these Robinsons and Rowanses.

Agreed. But I'd be surprised if we had any on these threads who think "if I just keep my head down it will blow over."

[Kolokotronis]

"We Catholics have some doctrinal development to work on when it comes to the Sacraments of Initiation. Orthodoxy continues the practice of the Early Church"

Now don't go reinventing the wheel. There's been quite enough of that the past 40 years! :)

[newheart]

I suppose that if you have nothing really to believe in, confirming that faith really is kind of oxymoronic.

Hayride to Hell, indeed.


You know sionnsar, for a guy who was going to take a break, you're certainly filling your quota of posts. ;-)

[sionnsar]

You know sionnsar, for a guy who was going to take a break, you're certainly filling your quota of posts. ;-)

Habits, you know. And squeezing time in here & there. And having lots of material presented right off. But I could "vanish" at any time until Saturday. Probably won't be around much at all Sunday through Wednesday because I'll be away at a conference.

[torqemada]

>>"I'd be surprised if we had any on these threads who think "if I just keep my head down it will blow over."<<

I agree with your statement, sionnsar, but only so far as it concerns those folks enlightened enough to be reading & posting to these threads. On the other hand, I think there's a lot of folks still sitting in ECUSA's pews who think just that.

Here's what bothers me most about my brothers & sisters who say they're "staying to fight." Two things, really...

First, the folks I know who've said this wouldn't say, "you-know-what" if they had a mouth full. I KNOW this because they had absolutely nothing to say when our Bishop foisted a lesbian off on our church as a Deacon & 6 months later ordained her as a priest. These poor souls have been completely & utterly cowed over the last decade or so by the possibility that someone (not the least of which is their priest or bishop) will publicly accuse them of being "intolerent...homophobic...fundmentalist...negative...unChristian...yada, yada, yada." They'd rather die than speak out & be forced to defend their position on an issue. Consequently, their idea of "fighting the evil" is to resort to cowardly tactics. They stop pledging altogether or they designate their giving to the building fund or the altar guild. They stop volunteering their time & talent. They stop fellowshipping. They allow their children to stop attending church. They refuse to seek election to the Vestry or as delegates to convention. If they attend a parish meeting at all, they sit in the back & keep mum. And, if anyone outside the church asks them about the mess that's happening in ECUSA, they'll claim, "It really doesn't effect us here in (you fill in the city name)." While this stereotype may not apply to a couple of folks here on FR who've said they're "staying to fight," I would argue that my experience says they are the exception & not the rule.

The second troublesome aspect of these folks staying put is that they embolden the heretics & the apostates to continue in their outrageous & sinful behavior because they face only mild consequences for it. If they can count these folks in attendance, & having been served communion, & they're still putting enough money in the plate to pay the priest & bishop's salaries, all is well. The worst of it is that these heretics are then able to use these folks as statistical propaganda. In the last two years, how many media reports have you seen where some ECUSA Bishop has credited the decline in membership & giving to a "slumping economy" or "normal attrition?" What a lousy Christian witness to the world these people are. Their Church supports: abortion on demand, divorce at will, rejection of the Scriptures, denies Jesus' divinity, embraces pagan rituals, elevates non-celibate homosexuals to the priesthood & the episcopate - declaring them suitable representatives of Christ (no less), teachers & defenders of the Faith. And, for all of this, these folks remain, presumably to "fight." Is it any wonder that the followers of Islam declare Christians "infidels" & advocate our destruction lest we corrupt the whole world? Within the model of ECUSA, they ARE infidels & they HAVE corrupted our Christian Faith, our culture, & our society.

You know, I have more charity & understanding for the person who's honest enough to admit that they're staying put in ECUSA because they can't bear the pain & hardship of of walking away. When an Episcopalian can still speak the truth, such as it is, they still have a shot at redemption & salvation.

[sionnsar]

While this stereotype may not apply to a couple of folks here on FR who've said they're "staying to fight," I would argue that my experience says they are the exception & not the rule.

torqemada, I'm certainly not going to argue with you on this.. because I suspect you are quite correct, but don't forget that not all of ECUSA is like the Diocese of Olympia. I have no doubt but that if I had moved to the Diocese of San Joaquin instead, under +John-David Schofield, I'd likely still be in ECUSA. (What happens after he retires is entirely another matter...)