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To: St.Chuck
The Michaelangelo's of the rennaisance were studying the art of Rome and Greece,and the ideas of Plato, not the Church.

Michealangelo took the pagan artwork of Ancient Greece (and Egypt) and Christianized it. They did not seek to take the Church and conform it to the tastes of the modern day. They took the aesthetic qualities that were true and uplifting in ancient art forms and fulfilled their potential with Christian imagery (and consequently improved on the quality)

Baroque artists represented the exorbitant wealth and excess of the nation state and the monarchy, not the Church.

Which Baroque artists are you talking about? Certainly not those of the Flemish, Dutch or Greek Traditions. Rembrandt for one was certainly providing magnificent works based on themes of Catholic origin. In fact, just take it back a few steps. Painting itself stems from religious mosaics. Stained glass is the remnant of that craft.

"Where the church goes...." When did the church go communist

Liberation theology. Had the Church held firm that nightmare would never have happened.

or develop constitutional republics or wage wars in search of WMD's?

"Freedom" "Liberty" Aligning the Church with the principles of the Revolution. You are looking at the post-Vatican II world. The Church dropped the Ball and the power vacuum has been filled (or attempted to be filled) by the U.S.A.

I think alot has happened without and despite the Church. I"m not saying that the Church hasn't been a huge influence, but that phrase just doesn't seem right. The world is not following the Church today.

That's because the Church has stopped leading. It greeted the World at Vatican II. "All power is given me in Heaven and on Earth." He said, "All power" and that power resides in the Keys of the See of Peter. If a Pope decides to use them for God's purpose and the governments of the World take a stand against him. Woe to the world.

33 posted on 03/05/2005 9:32:14 PM PST by Gerard.P (If you've lost your faith, you don't know you've lost it. ---Fr. Malachi Martin R.I.P.)
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To: Gerard.P
Michealangelo took the pagan artwork of Ancient Greece (and Egypt) and Christianized it.

No doubt, the artists' patrons were Churchmen when the Church wielded an enormous amount of wealth and temporal power. So their subjects reflect that. It seems entirely appropriate to produce Christian art for places of worship. Nonetheless, a sculpture like David is idealized man (Platonic).

Which Baroque artists are you talking about?

You brought up El Greco and Tintoretto.I put them after the rennaisance. I bring up baroque to represent how the times change and the subject matter and style change as well. And the prchasers of art change. Certainly you would agree that the artists of today aren't following the church by any stretch of the imagination. Their patrons are young men who like to see action movies and libidinous teenyboppers obsessed with anything sexual. Artists have to eat. But I already conceded that the Church was the art consumer at a particular time in history.

You are looking at the post-Vatican II world.

Am not. Marx and Lenin preceded V2, as did the concept of a government sans Church, as in our constitution. V2 has nothing to do with a lot of things that grip the world right now, and a lot of things that grip it preceded V2.

41 posted on 03/05/2005 10:26:14 PM PST by St.Chuck
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