The Michaelangelo's of the rennaisance were studying the art of Rome and Greece,and the ideas of Plato, not the Church. Baroque artists represented the exorbitant wealth and excess of the nation state and the monarchy, not the Church. "Where the church goes...." When did the church go communist or develop constitutional republics or wage wars in search of WMD's? I think alot has happened without and despite the Church. I"m not saying that the Church hasn't been a huge influence, but that phrase just doesn't seem right. The world is not following the Church today.
Besides giving grace to those assisting at mass, each valid and reverent Holy Sacrifice of the Mass also brings enormous graces into the world. This acts as actual grace upon people, calling them to conversion and repentance. It is also the force that holds the natural world in order, instead of chaos.
When the mass, and the other sacraments were attacked and changed their efficacy was reduced, and so was the supply of grace to the world. The practice of the faith weakened, less vocations and a diminishment of the priesthood, less masses, (and very few of them pleasing to the Lord in my estimate), less grace for the world.
Without supernatural grace, chaos will reign.
Now just for a moment imagine that you are Satan's strategist, and you want to help him pull as many souls down as you can, what would you advise him to attack? The source of supernatural grace, The Church, and primarily the mass and the priesthood. Without the priesthood no mass and sacraments, without sacraments no grace.
This is exactly what the enemy within the Church has done.
Michealangelo took the pagan artwork of Ancient Greece (and Egypt) and Christianized it. They did not seek to take the Church and conform it to the tastes of the modern day. They took the aesthetic qualities that were true and uplifting in ancient art forms and fulfilled their potential with Christian imagery (and consequently improved on the quality)
Baroque artists represented the exorbitant wealth and excess of the nation state and the monarchy, not the Church.
Which Baroque artists are you talking about? Certainly not those of the Flemish, Dutch or Greek Traditions. Rembrandt for one was certainly providing magnificent works based on themes of Catholic origin. In fact, just take it back a few steps. Painting itself stems from religious mosaics. Stained glass is the remnant of that craft.
"Where the church goes...." When did the church go communist
Liberation theology. Had the Church held firm that nightmare would never have happened.
or develop constitutional republics or wage wars in search of WMD's?
"Freedom" "Liberty" Aligning the Church with the principles of the Revolution. You are looking at the post-Vatican II world. The Church dropped the Ball and the power vacuum has been filled (or attempted to be filled) by the U.S.A.
I think alot has happened without and despite the Church. I"m not saying that the Church hasn't been a huge influence, but that phrase just doesn't seem right. The world is not following the Church today.
That's because the Church has stopped leading. It greeted the World at Vatican II. "All power is given me in Heaven and on Earth." He said, "All power" and that power resides in the Keys of the See of Peter. If a Pope decides to use them for God's purpose and the governments of the World take a stand against him. Woe to the world.
What an asinine and terribly unlearned statement. As if all of our greatest artists were of a monolithic, uninspired and secular mind.
Would you mind explaining how the philosophy of Plato has anything whatsoever do with with the works of Rembrandt?
"The Michaelangelo's of the rennaisance were studying the art of Rome and Greece,and the ideas of Plato, not the Church. Baroque artists represented the exorbitant wealth and excess of the nation state and the monarchy, not the Church."
You are wrong if you think Renaissance and Baroque art and architecture were not primarily influenced by the Church. It was the papal treasury that drove the European awakening. Renaissance popes were wild about art and learning. And it was Plato and Aristotle who had formed the basis for Augustinian and Thomistic theologies and the writings of Abelard and Aquinas and later Suarez and Bellarmine. Read Aquinas. He was as apt to cite Aristotle as Scripture. And without scholastic philosophy, you would never have had the flowering of the great universities of Europe. In fact, the Church had lost Greek philosophy--and it was the Church's great Crusades that brought these writers back to the European continent from Islam--which gave impetus to the revival of philosophy and theology and the rise of the universities. You need to rethink what you've just posted.