[NYer]

Our Lady of Guadeloupe

On December 9, 1531, Mary appeared on a hill just outside Mexico City in Mexico to Juan Diego.  She asked that a shrine be built there.

Juan told the bishop and the bishop asked for a sign that it was really Mary that asked for the shrine to be built.

Juan returned to Mary and told her of the bishop's request.  Mary told Juan to gather roses from the hill and take them to the bishop as his sign.

It was December and not time for the roses to bloom but Juan found many beautiful roses.  He began gathering them up and put them in his tilma (A covering over clothes).

He carried them back to the bishop. He explained what Mary had said to him and presented the bishop with the sign he had asked for.  As he unfolded his tilma, the roses fell to the floor.  As the roses fell, there on his tilma, was an image of Mary, the Mother of God.

The chapel was built in 1535.

Many people feel this is what Mary really looks like since she put this image on the tilma.  Notice underneath, holding Mary, is St. Michael the archangel.

[Kolokotronis]

Neat!!!!!

[NYer]

Is there a link between Guadalupe and the Immaculate Conception? From the time of the apparition and first glimpse of the Miraculous Image on the tilma of Bl. Juan Diego, Catholics, Spaniards and Indian, American and European, have always believed there is a relation between Mary Immaculate and Guadalupe.
Our Lady of Guadeloupe and the Immaculate Conception

[muawiyah]

Still involves rosaries, and Moslems worship those things. Not likely you'll get many regular Protestants to cross that bridge.

[Viking2002]

Don't Lutherans still retain some Catholic traditions that carried over after the Reformation?

[Cold Heat]

Methodism is quite close to the Catholicism from whence it came, but this is one of the reasons they left to form their own church to begin with, and it will not sit well for very long.

[NeoCaveman]

Bush v. Gore was decided on 12/12 the Feast of Our Lady of Guadalupe. Curious coincidence :-)

[AlbionGirl]

Bump, and beautiful picture, as usual.

[muawiyah]

As an item of interest along the same lines, the patron protective goddess of Taiwan is named "Matsu" which means "Mother Ancestor", or "Grandmother" or "Greatgrandmother".

She last made an appearance in WWII during an American bombing raid. According to the program I'm watching at the moment on COX Cable one of our pilots reported an aparition of what seemed to be a very tall woman catching bombs and tossing them aside.

This was also reported extensively on the ground.

According to this program Matsu is presently the most venerated goddess in Taiwan. You have to talk directly to Matsu since no one may intervene.

Thai Buddhists regularly report such apparitions as well.

I don't begin to understand these visions and images. However, they seem to be a worldwide phenomenon, and there is quite a bit of commonality in them.

[Salvation]

METHODIST CHURCH DISPLAYS VIRGIN OF GUADALUPE

GUADALUPE DEVOTION IS CROSSING INTO PROTESTANT DENOMINATIONS

 

A Novena to Our Lady of Guadalupe

Relic From Guadalupe Tilma to Tour U.S.

The Amazing Truth of Our Lady of Guadalupe

Our Lady Of Guadalupe

Celebrating 470 years of an ongoing miracle, the apparition of Our Lady of Guadalupe 1531

Science Stunned by Virgin of Guadalupe´s Eyes

OUR LADY OF GUADALUPE [Read only]

[nickcarraway]

BUMP

[PAR35]

These folks are obviously still clinging to their Catholic roots. They need to find a Roman Catholic parish to join. They are not theologically Protestant, why are they going to a Methodist church?

[conservonator]

But this is part of a trend nationwide: mainline Protestant churches and even some evangelical ones (in places like California, with a strong Mexican populace) are accepting the veneration of statues, which for decades has been misinterpreted as idolatry.

Veneration of statues? What kind of nut would venerate a chunk of plaster? Sloppy or deliberate wording by the author.

[xzins]

I'm an ordained Methodist elder (equivalent of your priest), NYer, in the United Methodist Church.

It is necessary to point out to you on this thread one of the unchangeable "Articles of Religion" of the United Methodist Church. (This is in the 1700's language of John Wesley.)

Article 14—Of Purgatory The Romish doctrine concerning purgatory, pardon, worshiping, and adoration, as well of images as of relics, and also invocation of saints, is a fond thing, vainly invented, and grounded upon no warrant of Scripture, but repugnant to the Word of God.

That said, this does not say that one cannot have a serious discussion about art and the church as opposed to veneration/adoration etc. In other words, it's the PURPOSE of any "art" that makes it appropriate or inappropriate.

If for reflection, commemoration, etc., then there's no problem. As soon (I'm speaking about our church) as one crosses the line into veneration, adoration, worship, etc., then one has violated our 14th Article of Religion.

[xzins]

I'm an ordained Methodist elder (equivalent of your priest), NYer, in the United Methodist Church.

It is necessary to point out to you on this thread one of the unchangeable "Articles of Religion" of the United Methodist Church. (This is in the 1700's language of John Wesley.)

Article 14—Of Purgatory The Romish doctrine concerning purgatory, pardon, worshiping, and adoration, as well of images as of relics, and also invocation of saints, is a fond thing, vainly invented, and grounded upon no warrant of Scripture, but repugnant to the Word of God.

That said, this does not say that one cannot have a serious discussion about art and the church as opposed to veneration/adoration etc. In other words, it's the PURPOSE of any "art" that makes it appropriate or inappropriate.

If for reflection, commemoration, etc., then there's no problem. As soon (I'm speaking about our church) as one crosses the line into veneration, adoration, worship, etc., then one has violated our 14th Article of Religion.

[RnMomof7]

But this is part of a trend nationwide: mainline Protestant churches and even some evangelical ones (in places like California, with a strong Mexican populace) are accepting the veneration of statues, which for decades has been misinterpreted as idolatry. Pastors of other Hispanic Methodist congregations objected too. Meanwhile, and curiously,

I will bet not one that comes from the Reformation . We still do not do icons ...

It would not be a surprise in the counter reformation churches.. they have always been on the way back to Rome.

Merry Christmas NYer hope our ice does not head your way !

[Baraonda]

Merry Christmas.