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F.F. Bruce's "The New Testament Documents: Are They Reliable?"
Prydain ^ | 12/10/2004 | Will

Posted on 12/10/2004 8:14:24 AM PST by sionnsar

I never cease to marvel at the richness of the resources we have on the Internet. Towards that end, I am most pleased to link to the redoubtable scholar F.F. Bruce's The New Testament Documents: Are They Reliable?. This is a true treasure for apologetics, to say the least. Here is an excerpt from Chapter One, "Does It Matter?":

Does it matter whether the New Testament documents are reliable or not? Is it so very important that we should be able to accept them as truly historical records ? Some people will very confidently return a negative answer to both these questions. The fundamental principles of Christianity, they say, are laid down in the Sermon on the Mount and elsewhere in the New Testament; their validity is not affected by the truth or falsehood of the narrative framework in which they are set. Indeed, it may be that we know nothing certain about the Teacher into whose mouth they are put; the story of Jesus as it has come down to us may be myth or legend, but the teaching ascribed to Him-whether He was actually responsible for it or not-has a value all its own, and a man who accepts and follows that teaching can be a true Christian even if he believes that Christ never lived at all.

This argument sounds plausible, and it may be applicable to some religions. It might be held, for example, that the ethics of Confucianism have an independent value quite apart from the story of the life of Confucius himself, just as the philosophy of Plato must be considered on its own merits, quite apart from the traditions that have come down to us about the life of Plato and the question of the extent of his indebtedness to Socrates. But the argument can be applied to the New Testament only if we ignore the real essence of Christianity. For the Christian gospel is not primarily a code of ethics or a metaphysical system; it is first and foremost good news, and as such it was proclaimed by its earliest preachers. True, they called Christianity 'The Way' and 'The Life'; but Christianity as a way of life depends upon the acceptance of Christianity as good news. And this good news is intimately bound up with the historical order, for it tells how for the world's redemption God entered into history, the eternal came into time, the kingdom of heaven invaded the realm of earth, in the great events of the incarnation, crucifixion, and resurrection of Jesus the Christ. The first recorded words of our Lord's public preaching in Galilee are: 'The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God has drawn near; repent and believe the good news."

That Christianity has its roots in history is emphasised in the Church's earliest creeds, which fix the supreme revelation of God at a particular point in time, when 'Jesus Christ, His only Son our Lord . . . suffered under Pontius Pilate'. This historical 'onceforallness' of Christianity, which distinguishes it from those religious and philosophical systems which are not specially related to any particular time, makes the reliability of the writings which purport to record this revelation a question of firstrate importance...

...the character of Jesus can be known only from the New Testament records; the influence of His character is therefore tantamount to the influence of the New Testament records. Would it not, then, be paradoxical if the records which, on the testimony of a rationalist historian, produced such results, were devoid of historical truth? This, of course, does not in itself prove the historicity of these records, for history is full of paradoxes, but it does afford an additional reason for seriously investigating the trustworthiness of records which have had so marked an influence on human history. Whether our approach is theological or historical, it does matter whether the New Testament documents are reliable or not.

For anyone who wishes to study the New Testament and its origins, this is a worthwhile read, and I commend it to you wholeheartedly.


TOPICS: General Discusssion; Mainline Protestant
KEYWORDS: inerrancy
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1 posted on 12/10/2004 8:14:25 AM PST by sionnsar
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To: ahadams2; proud_2_B_texasgal; Perseverando; TexasKamaAina; rightwingreligiousfanatic; TomSmedley; ..

Traditional Anglican ping, continued in memory of its founder Arlin Adams.

FReepmail me if you want on or off this list.
This is a moderately high-volume ping list (typically 3-7 pings/day).

Resource for Traditional Anglicans: http://trad-anglican.faithweb.com

2 posted on 12/10/2004 8:14:55 AM PST by sionnsar († trad-anglican.faithweb.com † || Iran Azadi || All I want for Christmas is a legitimate governor.)
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To: sionnsar
...the character of Jesus can be known only from the New Testament records

Actually, this is incorrect. The character of Jesus can only be known through oral tradition as was passed on by the original apostles and handed down from generation to generation, even to today; the Bible is a product of this. The New Testament wasn't even compiled until the late 4th century, and the authority with which the early Church had to deem the Bible as legitimate is the same authority that exists today :)
3 posted on 12/10/2004 8:18:23 AM PST by mike182d
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To: sionnsar

Along the same lines, N.T. Wright wrote a terrific book supporting the historical veracity of the Resurrection accounts. I recommend it to all. The Resurrection of the Son of God:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0800626796/qid=1102695561/sr=2-3/ref=pd_ka_b_2_3/102-7434261-1567361


4 posted on 12/10/2004 8:20:27 AM PST by Unam Sanctam
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To: Unam Sanctam

Thank you!


5 posted on 12/10/2004 8:32:37 AM PST by sionnsar († trad-anglican.faithweb.com † || Iran Azadi || All I want for Christmas is a legitimate governor.)
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To: sionnsar
From this site here:

Bibliology: The Doctrine of the Written Word
Revelation Scripture is the Word of God by J.I. Packer
One Year Bible Reading Plan by M'Cheyne (Online ESV)

Outline of Sinclair Ferguson, "How does the Bible Look at Itself?" in Inerrancy and Hermeneutic edited by Harvie M. Conn by Rev. Charles R. Biggs (word)


Nature And Scripture
(.pdf)
From The Infallible Word: A Symposium, by the members of the faculty of Westminster Theological Seminary, pp. 255–293 The two forms of revelation—revelation through nature and revelation in Scripture—be set in careful relationship to one another. Do the two forms of God’s revelation to sinners cover two distinct interests or dimensions of human life? Do they speak with different degrees of authority? Just what, we are bound to ask, is the relation between them?

Bible Research
Internet Resources for Students of Scripture by Michael D. Marlowe
The New Testament and Its Context Prof. Barry D. Smith
What the Bible Says About Various Topics Basic learning and reference tool
21 Questions on The Doctrine of Scripture by Francis Turretin (1623-1687) New!
Bibliology:  The Doctrine of the Written Word by J. Hampton Keathley III
Can We Trust a Book Written 2000 Years Ago? By Dick Tripp
Is Bibliolatry Possible? b
y S.M. Baugh


The Books of the Bible by Phyllis Hunt
The Doctrine of the Word By Samuel Waldron (comprehensive)
Getting the Big Picture in the Bible by CHAIM
How the whole Bible fits together and points to Messiah
God's Revelation to Man by Chris Schlect
The Preservation of the Textus Receptus by Paul Mizzi
Translation Theory and Methods by Michael Marlowe (and others)


Must I Learn How To Interpret The Bible?
By D. A. Carson
The Formation of the New Testament Canon by B.B. Warfield
Apostles and Prophets and the Foundation of the Church by Bob DeWaay
The Whole Counsel of God by Bob DeWaay
Is your Modern Translation Corrupt by James R. White
Answering the Allegations of KJV Only Advocates
"God told me" and the Sufficiency of Scripture By Mark Dever
Special Revelation, Inspiration, The Bible's Completion by Paul D. Adams
Who Wrote The First 5 Books of the Bible? - ALLIS-ARCHER-GREEN-UNGER-YOUNG
How is the Bible the Word of God by
George Eldon Ladd
The Two Testaments by F.F. BRUCE
Hebrew Bible Audio Clips

Doctrine of the Bible by Valley Bible Church lessons on Revelation, Inspiration, Inerrancy, Canonicity, Transmission, and Translation

Bibliology Series by Leon Stump: Includes canon of Scripture, the doctrine of inspiration, the transmission of the text, translations, and principles of interpretation. This is a sound treatise, including much interaction with scholarly works.

A THEOLOGY OF SCRIPTURE by John Stevenson
Has God Spoken? The Doctrine of Revelation
Who Wrote the Bible? The Doctrine of Inspiration
Are the Right Books in the Bible? The Doctrine of Canonicity
Has the Bible Been Changed? The Doctrine of Textual Criticism
In Search of Anceint Manuscripts. The Tools of Textual Criticism
With Men of Other Tongues. The Process of Translation
What does the Bible Say About Itself? The Bible on the Bible

Inerrancy
The Inerrancy of the Autographa by Greg Bahnsen
Divine Origin and Character of Scripture by Gerrit Hendrik Hospers
The Autographs of Scripture by Paul Mizzi
Inductivism, Inerrancy, and Presuppositionalism By Dr. Greg Bahnsen
Is the Bible Inerrant? by Prof. John M. Frame
An explanation of why "inerrant" is a good word to describe God's written Word
The Adequacy of Human Language” by J. I. Packer—An Outline Summary
Inspiration and Inerrancy by M. James Sawyer, Ph.D.
Inerrancy and Infallibility of the Bible by P D Feinberg
Does Inerrancy Really Matter?
by James M. Boice
The Inerrancy of Scripture by Keith VanHoozer
Biblical Inerrancy by John Gerstner (book)
Hermeneutics and the Doctrine of Scripture in Post-Reformation Reformed Thought
by Martin I. Klauber
Innerancy and Preaching by John MacArthur
Modernism and Biblical Inerrancy by Brian M. Schwertley
Inerrancy and inspiration of the Bible by CARM
The Infallibility of Scripture by C. H. Spurgeon
The Inspiration, Inerrancy,and Authority of the Bible by Ron Rhodes
Inerrancy In The Old Testament Historical Books by Paul Benware Author & Theologian
The Inspiration, Inerrancy & Authority of the Holy Scriptures by John Kohler
The Chicago Statement on Biblical Inerrancy

Revelation, Inspiration, and Scripture: Systematic Theology I Small Group Study Notes by Dr. King Counts (Mnt. View PCA)
Prolegomena and Introduction;
Religion and Theology; General Revelation; Special Revelation; Inspiration; Perfections and Proofs of Inspiration; The Canon of Scripture (Old Testament); The Canon of Scripture (New Testament); Rules in the Study and Interpretation of Scripture

"To preach the Bible as 'the handbook for life,' or as the answer to every question, rather than as the revelation of Christ, is to turn the Bible into an entirely different book. This is how the Pharisees approached Scripture, as we can see clearly from the questions they asked Jesus. For the Pharisees, the Scriptures were a source of trivia for life's dilemmas. To be sure, Scripture provides God-centered and divinely revealed wisdom for life, but if this were its primary objective, Christianity would be a religion of self-improvement by following examples and exhortations, not a religion of the Cross." -Michael Horton

Inspiration
Our Lord's View of the Old Testament by By The Rev. J.W. Wenham, M.A., B.D.
Doctrine of Inspiration by G.H. Hospers
The Inspiration of Scripture by Donald MacLeod
The Humanness of Scripture by Donald MacLeod
The Inspiration of Scripture by James W. Scott
The Inspiration of the Bible
by Rick Wade
The Inspiration and Authority of Scripture by Herman Ridderbos
The Doctrine of Inspiration by G.H. Hospers
The Human Writers of the Scripture by E.J. Young
The Divine Inspiration of the Bible by A. W. Pink (book)
The Inspiration of the Bible by A.A. Hodge
The Inspiration and Authority of the Scriptures by B. B. Warfield
The Meaning of "Theopneustos" by B.B. Warfield

Early Church Comments On Inspiration by B.B. Warfield
The History of the Doctrine of Inspiration by M. James Sawyer, Ph.D.
Inspiration and Inerrancy by M. James Sawyer, Ph.D.
Theories of Inspiration by M. James Sawyer, Ph.D.
Inspiration, Authority and Criticism in the Thought of Charles Augustus Briggs by M. James Sawyer, Ph.D.

The Synoptic Problem and Inspiration: A Response by Daniel B. Wallace, Ph.D.

"The Defense of Inspiration" - (Selected Scriptures) by John MacArthur
Our God-Breathed Bible by John MacArthur
"The Inspiration of Scripture" by John MacArthur
Prolegomena: Inspiration by Pastor Bob Burridge
Who Wrote the Bible? The Doctrine of Inspiration by John Stevenson
Revelation and the Inspiration of Scripture by John Fork
The Wonderful Unity of the Bible Attests to its Authorship A.W. Pink
The Inspiration of the Bible by Rick Wade
Articles Defending the Inspiration and Trustworthiness of the Bible by Matt Perman
Is Sola Scriptura a Protestant Concoction? by Dr. Greg Bahnsen Highly Recommended*

The Inspiration of Scripture by Lorraine Boettner

"For as the aged, or those whose sight is defective, when any books however fair, is set before them, though they perceive that there is something written are scarcely able to make out two consecutive words, but, when aided by glasses, begin to read distinctly, so Scripture, gathering together the impressions of Deity, which, till then, lay confused in our minds, dissipates the darkness, and shows us the true God clearly"

- John Calvin, Institutes of Christian religion
 
Either the Bible will keep you away from sin, or sin will keep you away from the Bible!
 
The evidence for our New Testament writings is ever so much greater than the evidence for many writings of classical authors, the authenticity of which no-one dreams of questioning. And if the New Testament were a collection of secular writings, their authenticity would generally be regarded as beyond all doubt. It is a curious fact that historians have often been much readier to trust the New Testament than have many theologians.

- F. F. Bruce, The New Testament Documents: Are They Reliable? [1949], p. 15

Formation of the New/Old Testament Canon
The Concept and Importance of Canonicity by Greg Bahnsen
Evangelicals and the Canon of the New Testament by M. James Sawyer, Ph.D.

The Development of the Canon of the New Testament By Glenn Davis
The Development of the Canon of the New Testament by Bruce M. Metzger, Wilhelm Schneemelcher created by Glenn Davis
Introduction to the Canon and Ancient Versions of Scripture by Michael Marlowe
A brief and non-technical review of the development of the canon and the role of ancient versions in this process.
How the Books of the Bible Were Chosen
The Formation of the New Testament Canon by B.B. Warfield

The Canon of Scripture By Samuel Waldron
The Origins of the New Testament Written by Robert C. Jones
Were the Apostolic Fathers Unable to Distinguish Between Authentic and Unauthentic Books? by Glenn Miller
How We Got our Bible by Mike Vlach (pdf)
The Canon of Scripture by Curt Daniel
The Witness of History for Scripture By Franz Pieper
THE FORMATION OF THE NEW TESTAMENT CANON Stephen Voorwinde
Was the New Testament Influenced by Pagan Religions? by Ronald Nash
The Content and Extent of the Old Testament Canon by D. Wayne Stiles, II, Th.M.
What Writings are Truly in the Canon of the Old Testament Scriptures
Canon Fire
On the Formation of the NT Canon by J. P. Holding
The Textual Reliability of the New Testament by J. P. Holding
The Gospels: “Q,” Literary Dependence, and So Forth by J. P. Holding
A Defense of the Authenticity of the Pastoral Epistles by J. P. Holding
A Defense of the Authenticity of the Trial Narratives by J. P. Holding
How We Got the Old Testament by Dr. Lane Burgland
How We Got the New Testament by Dr. Lane Burgland
How Many Books Are in the Bible? by Erwin W. Lutzer
The Early Canon Process of the New Testament By James White
Are the Right Books in the Bible? The Doctrine of Canonicity by John Stevenson
The Canon of Scripture by Pastor Bob Burridge
“The Canon of the New Testament”, Chapter 3 in The New Testament Documents: Are They Reliable? or read whole book by F. F. Bruce,
“How the Books of the New Testament Were Selected”, Chapter 2 in >>>An Introduction to the New Testament <<< by Richard Heard
The Apostles and the Written Word by Leland M. Haines
Roy W. Hoover, “How the Canon Was Formed”
How We Got our Bible In Depth Study by Mike Vlach
Stephen Voorwinde, “The Formation of the New Testament Canon”,
Seven Principles For Recognizing Canonical Books by Bob and Gretchen Passantino
Were the Apostolic Fathers Unable to Distinguish Between Authentic and Unauthentic Books? by Glenn Miller
Five Arguments For the Integrity and Veracity of the NT in General and the Four Canonical Gospels in Particular by Glenn Miller
Did the Roman Empire Totally Distort the New Testament Documents? by Glenn Miller
The Question of "Where Did the Gospels Become Authentic?" by Glenn Miller
The Canon of the Bible by by William Evans
Evangelicals and the Canon of the New Testament by M. James Sawyer, Ph.D.
Canon of the Bible by John Edward Lynch
The Perspicuity ("Clearness") of Scripture--A Reply to Dave Armstrong By T.G. Enloe


The Bible itself teaches its divine origin and authority:

  • That "No prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophets’ own interpretation." 2 Peter 1:20
  • That all Scripture was written as "Men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit." 2 Peter 1:21
  • That "God Spoke . . . through the prophets . . . and by His Son." Hebrews 1:1-2
  • That "All Scripture is God-breathed." 2 Timothy 3:16
  • The Word of God, once given and written, is exact in all details down to each letter and stroke of the pen. Matthew 5:18
  • That "The Scripture cannot be broken." John 10:35
  • That "The Word of the Lord stands forever." 1 Peter 1:25

Study Guide: "Is the Bible Reliable?" by John MacArthur New!
--"The God Who Speaks" - (Selected Scriptures)
--"God Has Spoken" - (Selected Scriptures)
--"God Has Spoken--But Why?" - (Selected Scriptures)
--"Our God-Breathed Bible" - (Selected Scriptures)
--"The Defense of Inspiration" - (Selected Scriptures)
--"The Amazing Truth of the Bible" - (Selected Scriptures)
--"The Bible Verifiable by Miracles" - (Selected Scriptures)
--"The Miraculous Jesus" - (Selected Scriptures)
--"Science and the Scripture" - (Selected Scriptures)
--"Prewritten History--Part 1" - (Selected Scriptures)
--"Prewritten History--Part 2" - (Selected Scriptures)

Authority & Sola Scriptura
Freedom and Authority by Dr. J. I. Packer
The Authority of Scripture by Martyn Lloyd-Jones (1899-1981)
Who Really Speaks for God by John H. Armstrong - On the issue of Authority considering Roman Catholic and Protestamnt perspectives
The Inspiration and Authority of Scripture by Herman Ridderbos

The Inspiration and Authority of the Scriptures by B. B. Warfield
Authority: The Church & The Bible
by Edmund P Clowney
Why Should We Believe the Bible? by John Rogers
The Authority of Scripture: Notes on Westminster by Douglas Wilson
The Authority of Scripture by William Webster
Sola Scriptura and the Early Church By William Webster
The Authority of the Old Testament by Rev. P. Andrew Sandlin
The Bereans Rejected Sola Scriptura?? A Review and Rebuttal of an article in This Rock by James White
The Bible Is the Authoritative Word of God by Dr. Ken Schurb
The Scripture Sufficient Without Unwritten Traditions By Thomas Manton
Scripture and Tradition by Dr. Sinclair Ferguson
Is the Bible the Only Revelation from God? by Greg Herrick, Ph.D.
The Protestant Rule of Faith by Charles Hodge
Christ's View of the Authority of Canonical Scripture: A Paradigm for Systematic Theology by Christopher Louis Lang
Sola Scriptura by A.A. Hodge
Is Sola Scriptura a Protestant Concoction? by Dr. Greg Bahnsen
The Concept and Importance of Canonicity by Greg Bahnsen
New Testament Statements of Inspiration by Bernie L. Gillespie (pdf)
The Sufficiency of the Written Word
by Dr. John F. MacArthur, Jr
The Sufficiency of Scripture by John MacArthur
Traditionalism and Sola Scriptura Part I; Part II by John M. Frame
Does the Bible Teach Sola Scriptura? James White vs. Patrick Madrid (debate)
What Did the Early Church Believe About Scripture Alone? by William Webster
Sola Scriptura? by Brian Schwertley (e-book)
What Do We Mean by Sola Scriptura? by Dr. W. Robert Godfrey
Scripture Alone by Bernie L. Gillespie
Sola Scriptura by Kevin Efflandt on the cardinal doctrine of the Reformation. The Bible is complete, authoritative, and sufficient.
Is the Doctrine of Sola Scriptura Really Biblical? by Tony Warren
Authority in the Bible by C F H Henry
On Continuing Revelation by John Calvin
Does The Bible Teach Sola Scriptura? Gerry Matatics vs. James White - Reformed/Catholic debate
Authority in the Bible by G W Knight, III, H D McDonald & C F H Henry
Surprised by What?
A Defense of Sola Scriptura by Jake Magee
This article is an examination of various Roman Catholic apologist's arguments against the doctrine of Sola Scriptura as found in the original "Surprised by Truth" book

Six sermons on THE SURE WORD OF GOD by Geoff Thomas associate editor of the "Banner of Truth"

Interpretation/Hermeneutics
Rules in the Study and Interpretation of Scripture (PCA)
The Two Ages and Redemptive History Two Age
"How to Study Your Bible: Interpretation" by John MacArthur
Must I Learn How To Interpret The Bible? By D. A. Carson
What Are We Looking For In the Bible? By Michael S. Horton
Interpreting the Bible by Bruce Waltke
The Holy Spirit and Hermeneutics by Daniel B. Wallace, Ph.D.
Reformed Hermeneutics: How we interpret the Bible
Hermeneutics and the Creation Wars R. Scott Clark
A Reformed Confession Regarding Hermeneutics By Dr. Greg Bahnsen
Recommended Biblical Studies Resources On Biblical Hermeneutics by Two Age
Biblical Interpretation by CARM
The Interpretation of Scripture by Pastor Bob Burridge (GIRS)
Hermeneutics and Biblical Theology By Dr. Steven M. Baugh
We must realize that there is one theme running throughout all of the books of the Bible, tying the subplots, characters, and sub-themes into one grand redemptive drama.
A Christological Hermeneutic: Crisis and Conflict in Hermeneutics by Donald G. Bloesch
Monergism.com Sub-Section on Hermeneutics

Geneva Institute of Reformed Studies (lessons)
Prolegomena: Revelation, Divine Self-Disclosure by Pastor Bob Burridge
Prolegomena: The Canon of Scripture by Pastor Bob Burridge
Prolegomena: Inspiration by Pastor Bob Burridge
The Preservation of Scripture by Pastor Bob Burridge
Translation of Scripture by Pastor Bob Burridge
The Interpretation of Scripture by Pastor Bob Burridge

Perspectives on the Word of God, part 1 by: John M. Frame
Introduction; and The Nature of the Word of God

Perspectives on the Word of God, part 2
by: John M. Frame
The Media of the Word of God

Perspectives on the Word of God, part 3 by: John M. Frame
The Word of God and Christian Ethics

General Bible
Bible Gateway

Net Bible by Biblical Studies Pres

The Unchanging Character of God's Word by Steve Schlissel
Is Propositional Revelation Nonsense by Francis Schaeffer
Understanding the Bible Is it Possible? by Jack Crabtree
The Battle for the Bible by Herman C. Hanko
The Inerrancy, Canoncity and Interpretation of Scripture by John Fork
DOCTRINE OF THE WORD OF GOD Lecture Outline By John M. Frame
On Reading the Bible by John Newton
The Word of God by John Calvin
The Old and New Testaments by John Calvin
The Credibility of Scripture by John Calvin
Examples of Exegesis by John Calvin
The Word Our Only Rule by John Calvin
Calvin On Continuing Revelation by John Calvin
The Protestant Rule Of Faith by Charles Hodge

Our Need of Scripture by J. I. Packer

Blue Letter Bible
The Importance and Duty of Meditating on the Word of God by I. C. Herendeen
The Scriptures More Precious Than Gold by Charles Bridges
The Two Testaments by F.F. Bruse
The Scriptures Opened by Institute of Practical Bible Education
The Speaking Voice by A.W. Tozer
Useful Lessons fo Reading and Searching the Scriptures by Thomas Boston
The Daily Exercise of God's Most Holy & Sacred Word!
by John Knox
Preface to Romans by Martin Luther
The Divine & Human in the Bible B.B. Warfield
Theonomy and the Dating of Revelation by Robert L. Thomas
Which Bible translation is best? by John MacArthur
How should we study the Bible?
by John MacArthur
Why I Am Committed to Teaching the Bible by John MacArthur
"The Character of God's Word" by John MacArthur
"What it Takes to Study God's Word" by John MacArthur
"How to Study Your Bible: Closing the Gaps" by John MacArthur
Why Four Gospels? by A. W. Pink

What is the Bible About? by Edmund P Clowney
The Critical Use of the Old Testament by R.K. Harrison

The Gospel in Old Testament Preaching
by R.K. Harrison
Myths About the Bible by Dr. Don Deffner
The Power of God’s Word by Dr. Robert Preus  
There is a Presumtion in Favor of the Bible A.W. Pink
DOES GOD SPEAK TODAY APART FROM THE BIBLE? R. Fowler White

Sola Scriptura by A.A. Hodge
Bible Translation Website
Are the Biblical Documents Reliable? by Jimmy Williams
Bible-Reading by J. C. Ryle
Choosing a Bible Objective and informative by the Christian Research Institute
Are the Biblical Documents Reliable? by Jimmy Williams
How have the discoveries of archaeology verified the reliability of the Bible? Archaeology and the Bible
Confirmation of Biblical events - Is there any from written sources outside the Bible? Archaeology and the Bible
The Content and Extent of the OT Canon by D. Wayne Stiles, II
Evangelicals and the Canon of the New Testament by M. James Sawyer
The Bible Above all Price by Edward Payson
The Problem of Apparent Chronological Contradictions
in the Synoptics
by Joe Botti, Tom Dixon, & Alex Steinman
The Adequacy of Scripture by Greg Herrick, Ph.D.
Is 2 Peter Peter's?
by Wayne Stiles
The Authorship of 2 Peter by Hampton Keathley IV
The Conspiracy Behind the New Bible Translations by Daniel B. Wallace, Ph.D.
Crisis of the Word (2 Timothy 2:15) by Daniel B. Wallace, Ph.D.
Common Assaults on the Gospel by J. Hampton Keathley III
The Content and Extent of the OT Canon by Wayne Stiles
The Witness of the Spirit in the Protestant Tradition by Dr. M. James Sawyer
The Majority Text and the Original Text: Are they Identical? by Daniel B. Wallace, Ph.D.
Mark 1:2 and NT Textual Criticism by Daniel B. Wallace, Ph.D.
Mystery Truths of Scripture by J. Hampton Keathley III
Some Second Thoughts on the Majority Text by Daniel B. Wallace, Ph.D.
Survey of Bible Doctrine: The Bible by Sid Litke, Th.M.
The Synoptic Problem by Daniel B. Wallace, Ph.D.
We Can Trust the Bible by Lehman Strauss, Litt.D., F.R.G.S.
Why I Do Not Think the King James Bible is the Best Translation Available Today by Daniel B. Wallace, Ph.D.
Why So Many Versions? by Daniel B. Wallace, Ph.D.
Bibliology: The Bible by Greg Herrick, PhD.
The Knowledge of God the Creator by John Calvin
Can We Understand the Bible by Ron Julian

To preach the word . . . and not to follow it with constant and fervent prayer for its success, is to disbelieve its use, neglect its end, and to cast away the seed of the gospel at random.
JOHN OWEN
THOMAS WATSON

 

 

 

6 posted on 12/10/2004 9:01:59 AM PST by No_Outcome_But_Victory (Please pray for Ann, my pregnant wife. (High risk pregnancy.))
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To: mike182d
The character of Jesus can only be known through oral tradition as was passed on by the original apostles and handed down from generation to generation, even to today; the Bible is a product of this. The New Testament wasn't even compiled until the late 4th century, and the authority with which the early Church had to deem the Bible as legitimate is the same authority that exists today :)

I've seen this general statement before. It appears to be caused by certain historians who confused the codification of the various written materials of the day into a canon that would be accepted by all as representing the revealed Word of God. The canon was codified about AD400, but that canon was based on written material that already existed, not oral material.

The short book referenced in this thread has a comment on this point:

One thing must be emphatically stated. The New Testament books did not become authoritative for the Church because they were formally included in a canonical list; on the contrary, the Church included them in her canon because she already regarded them as divinely inspired, recognising their innate worth and generally apostolic authority, direct or indirect. The first ecclesiastical councils to classify the canonical books were both held in North Africa-at Hippo Regius in 393 and at Carthage in 397-but what these councils did was not to impose something new upon the Christian communities but to codify what was already the general practice of those communities.

BTW: I've skimmed the book this thread is linked to. It looks pretty well done, although it is pretty short considering the complexity of the overall subject matter. From what I saw in my initial run through, the book is consistent with the known historical record.

7 posted on 12/10/2004 9:10:01 AM PST by EternalHope (Boycott everything French forever. Including their vassal nations.)
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To: sionnsar

Oops, that post was a lot longer than I had intended. Sorry about that!


8 posted on 12/10/2004 9:13:09 AM PST by No_Outcome_But_Victory (Please pray for Ann, my pregnant wife. (High risk pregnancy.))
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To: sionnsar

SITREP - for future reference


9 posted on 12/10/2004 4:19:19 PM PST by LiteKeeper (Secularization of America is happening)
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To: sionnsar
He was actually responsible for it or not-has a value all its own, and a man who accepts and follows that teaching can be a true Christian even if he believes that Christ never lived at all.

Is the person who proposed this logic a member of the Ninth Circuit?

10 posted on 12/10/2004 4:25:34 PM PST by AndrewC (Darwinian logic -- It is just-so if it is just-so)
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To: mike182d
The character of Jesus can only be known through oral tradition as was passed on by the original apostles and handed down from generation to generation, even to today; the Bible is a product of this.

I'm not sure I entirely agree with that. John was an eyewitness and Paul wrote his epistles within a few years after the Crucifixion.

11 posted on 12/10/2004 4:30:31 PM PST by AndrewC (Darwinian logic -- It is just-so if it is just-so)
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To: No_Outcome_But_Victory

Yikes!


12 posted on 12/10/2004 4:58:31 PM PST by sionnsar († trad-anglican.faithweb.com † || Iran Azadi || All I want for Christmas is a legitimate governor.)
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To: sionnsar

BMFLR.


13 posted on 12/10/2004 5:00:21 PM PST by JusPasenThru (If you want to get it movin' you must learn to doof da bouven.)
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To: sionnsar

Yikes!
________________________________________

Sorry, my fat finger posted too fast. I wasn't supposed to post the whole thing! :P


14 posted on 12/10/2004 6:03:25 PM PST by No_Outcome_But_Victory (Please pray for Ann, my pregnant wife. (High risk pregnancy.))
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To: JusPasenThru
BMFLR?

Translation, please! I don't read q[rotin;kj cvj er[oijnfg skn[;fkjn[kjnsfmfn g'jk.

Thanks

15 posted on 12/10/2004 7:03:42 PM PST by LibreOuMort ("...But as for me, give me liberty or give me death!" - Patrick Henry)
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To: LibreOuMort

Book Marked For Later Reading.


16 posted on 12/10/2004 7:18:46 PM PST by JusPasenThru (If you want to get it movin' you must learn to doof da bouven.)
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To: AndrewC

John is an "alleged" eyewitness, which the Church verified upon canonizing the current New Testament we have today, while the Gospel of Thomas, another "alleged" eyewitness, was left out. Ultimately, it was the early Church fathers and the tradition passed down from the 11 apostles that formed everything we know of Jesus today, and even the Bible itself.

For example, Paul very rarely recounts an event of Jesus' life BUT when he does he always prefaces his account with "as was handed on to me."


17 posted on 12/13/2004 6:38:25 AM PST by mike182d
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To: mike182d
For example, Paul very rarely recounts an event of Jesus' life BUT when he does he always prefaces his account with "as was handed on to me."

Of course, he wasn't an eyewitness, but he talked to eyewitnesses so beyond the first saying, it was not an oral tradition.

Gal 1:18 Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to see Peter, and abode with him fifteen days.
Gal 1:19 But other of the apostles saw I none, save James the Lord's brother.
Gal 1:20 Now the things which I write unto you, behold, before God, I lie not.

Your use of "alleged" is irrelevant since this is not a mathematical proof nor a criminal trial. There are written documents that point to the facts, not an oral tradition, cleaned and published centuries later. The fact that there are ancient writings excluded from the canon indicates a tradition of writing.

18 posted on 12/13/2004 6:35:04 PM PST by AndrewC (Darwinian logic -- It is just-so if it is just-so)
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To: AndrewC
Your use of "alleged" is irrelevant since this is not a mathematical proof nor a criminal trial. There are written documents that point to the facts, not an oral tradition, cleaned and published centuries later. The fact that there are ancient writings excluded from the canon indicates a tradition of writing.

And what "facts" do we have to verify anything that is written in the Gospels? I don't recall the history books ever mentioning that Jesus walked on water. The only remotely factual documentation of any part of Jesus' life, with the exception of his death (Shroud of Turin), is what is found in the New Testament and the books that compile the New Testament are considered true because the early Church said they were. Many stories of Jesus' life in the various churches were considered "inspired text" prior to any official decree of the Church but were later excluded from the canon. For example, with what "facts" do we have to prove that Jesus did not have a child with Mary Magdelene? None, apart from what the early Church taught and later passed down through generations.
19 posted on 12/13/2004 8:35:03 PM PST by mike182d
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To: No_Outcome_But_Victory

WOW. Thanks. Bookmarked for slow digestion. hope your wife is fine......per prayer request on tagline.


20 posted on 12/13/2004 9:00:10 PM PST by bperiwinkle7 ("In the beginning was the Word.....")
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