Pope Admonishes US Bishops to Teach Laymen to Form Conscience According to Church Teaching

LifeSite ^ | December 6, 2004

[diamond6]

"Speak" what you want, not what you don't want.

I'm re-reading an excellent book by Charles Capps called "The Tongue - A Creative Force". Basically in a nutshell, you get what you speak because you bind God with negative words and unbelief.

I have put this to the test and usually get what I speak.
I recommend this book highly to all christians.

[Notwithstanding]

Sadly I felt obligated to publicly and constantly foil the RCIA presenters (including the pastor) in a large parish in which I had volunteered to assist with RCIA.

I was new and they mistook me for a spineless layman with no common sense - so they gave me official status as part of the catechist team for RCIA.

I spent two years casually but clearly pointing out what the official Catechism states as doctrine - and sort of forcing the presenters to acknowledge and even affirm (how wicked of me) that is was the official position of the Church.

[saradippity]

Thankyou.Aurora is in the Denver Archdiocese which is led by Archbishop Charles Chaput. He can be contacted at the Catholic Pastoral Center,1300 South Steele Street,Denver,Colo.,80210-2599.

If I were you or the girl's mother,I would double check the information the daughter said she was taught at the RCIA classes,and if confirmed write to him.

I would say:

"Dear Archbishop Chaput,

"I have heard you are a Bishop who truly cares about your flock. A daughter of a friend attended RCIA classes at ------Parish in Aurora. She told her mom that she learned that she didn't need to confess an abortion,that she can take communion in any condition,that birth control is okay,that premarital sex is okay (if you're in love)and that everyone goes to heaven."

"I know that is not Catholic teaching,I also know that you cannot possibly monitor every class and every liturgy in your large diocese which means that others need to help keep you informed. To that end,I thought you needed this information and might be able to address it with your pastors and catechists."

"Jesus told Peter to follow Him,He also gave Peter the keys. Bishop's are supposed to follow,as I know you do,and priests and laity should be following. When catechists give their own interpretation of Scripture,Tradition and Catholic teaching,they should be relieved of their positions. It would be better to buy a Catechism and a Bible for all Catholics in Denver to use and send the catechists for further training in Catholicism."

I hope you can do something about this situation because when the Catholic Church in this country wobbles,so does Christianity in Western Civilization. God Bless you."

Now I know your letter would be different than mine but I believe that it is only by informinng the Bishops' responsible for dioceses with facts and truth can we hope to overcome the enemy within and without. Truth and prayers work. BTW,I think your position as an AngloCatholic may even give more weight to your letter.

[Aquinasfan]

The Pope, quoting the teaching of the Second Vatican Council, said, "there is no human activity - even of the temporal order - that can be withdrawn from God's dominion."

The compartmentalization of religion is currently a widespread American problem.

[Aquinasfan]

Whether the instructors were bad or the young woman is willfully stupid, I have no idea.

I recommend buying a catechism and holding your nose during the classes. It's crazy out there. Too many priests like to put their "spin" on things; trying to gild a lily. It comes down to a pride thing.

[saradippity]

In typical overwrought fashion he goes after some fruitflies with a bazooka. While Bendell's bulleted points are excellent and should be sent to every B/bishop in the USCCB noting that it represents the heartfelt thoughts of Catholics all across the country,who are disturbed by the abuses listed. It should also be noted that it doesn't apply to all of them but it is sent to all so that it can't be exaggerated or ignored by those to whom it applies.

The misssive is misdirected at a small group of B/bishops,who may or may not have said anything. And what was said in the report was boiler plate bureaucratese,nothing egregious at all. When we learn how to work together for the Triune God and His Church we will overcome. As it stands we use up our ammunition fighting with each other and attacking both the good and the evil with equal indignatiion. Know the enemy and train your guns on them specifically. As it stands they just seek cover in the greater body and laugh as you pick off more good then evil.

[Land of the Irish]

The bishops will ignore the Pope's words.

And as evidenced in the past, the Pope will, in turn, ignore the bishops' disobedience and malfeasance in office.

[Aquinasfan]

I was new and they mistook me for a spineless layman with no common sense - so they gave me official status as part of the catechist team for RCIA.

Excellent. We can use Gramscian tactics on them now.

I spent two years casually but clearly pointing out what the official Catechism states as doctrine - and sort of forcing the presenters to acknowledge and even affirm (how wicked of me) that is was the official position of the Church.

8-)

[saradippity]

Thanks for that great post,that is exactly how we will overcome. Too many well formed Catholics do not want to take the time to even attend these heretical catechism classes because "it's a waste of time",let alone volunteer to teach them. And yet that is where we can make more inroads in exposing all Catholics to the Truth of the Faith. If every Freeper on these threads would go to a series of catechism classs armed with the new Catechism and the Bible,the fruit would be immeasurable.

If they took a couple of like minded Catholics with them and positioned themselves around the classroom,the results would be astounding,as long as they keep it pleasant or at least unemotional.

Are you still teaching? And what dioscese are you in? Good to see you back on the threads,I missed you.

[saradippity]

Whether the instructors were bad or the young woman is willfully stupid, I have no idea.

Sorry I missed that statement as I was so incensed that RCIA was teaching tripe that I overlooked it. So you can skip my suggestion to write to Archbishop Chaput unless you can confirm that is what she was taught.

I have been lamenting all of the misinformation we pass along and the irate letters we send out rather indiscrimately and then tell someone else to do it. Well, at least I did say confirm it with her first. Yet it does seem that the catechists could at least have diabused her of her errors. Oh well?

[Notwithstanding]

Thanks for the attaboy.

1. Your comments are absolutely accurate - this method works! But it you need to be pray pray pray because it is hard work and you should really do it with another so as to avoid feeling isolated. I made allies with well-formed people attending the class who appreciated my info.

2. I moved away several years back. It was Indianapolis area.

3. Added bonus: God will reward you by sending you people with open hearts who end up embracing the Truth - and very grateful for the Truth!

4. Added bonus 2: you will find that as a subversive in a heretical environment, you will learn so much about your faith and learn how to understand it and defend it - I was forced to chew on so many issues. The Lord has blessed us with the Catechism and so many other sources of truth - many from the pen of or inspired by the current pope!

5. Added bonus 3: you will battle the devil hand to hand at times in this type of situation - and end up quite confident that it was worth the battle. Think of how many people will miss out on God's Truth if you don't act!

6. I want to say "When the Truth is persecuted, the persecuted get Truthing!" - but its way too corny.

[JesseHousman]

...misssive is misdirected at a small group of B/bishops...

Of course they're not all of the caliber of, say, a Rembert Weakland, but these things needed to be said.

Here in my diocese the bishop has many bureaucracies under his control. One is busily organizing boycotts against Taco Bell who buys some tomatoes through brokers who deal with the local tomato farmers.

The bishop has called for, and is working overtime on, a boycott of Taco Bell's parent company to force them to force the tomato growers to raise the pay of the pickers!

I wrote a letter to His Excellency a year ago asking why the diocese is so busily organizing boycotts against the end user of the tomatoes. It would seem, I went on, that energies would be better expended on saving souls and cleaning any rats left in the woodwork before crusading against chain restaurants that don't grow the tomatoes in the first place.

Of course I received no answer.

I'm sorry if this offends you, but I don't consider the author of the letter going after "fruitflies" with a bazooka.

Whatever good bishops there are in this gaggle need to take action and speak out against the bishops that are leftover after the 1950's alliance that the communist agents (who became seminarians in obedience to the Kremlin) made with the homosexuals to cause the collapse of what they say as their biggest enemy: God, Jesus Christ, The Blessed Virgin Mary and all the saints.

The Roman Catholic Church is going to have to be put back together again in order that it resume its God-given role of setting an example of purity and goodness rather than covering up scandals and changing the basic tenets of the Faith.

Now. That being said:

MERRY CHRISTMAS!

[Notwithstanding]

It was quite delicious to listen to the not-quite-heresy (I use that term because actual heresy is never delicious to hear) spew forth from the pastor knowing that in a few minutes I would ask an "innocent" question that would force him to either embrace a doctrine taken verbatim from the Catechism or deny it outright! He knew he could not deny it outright (given what he discovered was my savvy and unwillingness to let him off the hook when he could be proven dead wrong on doctrine) or he would have a huge mess on his hands (thank God the bishop was "on board" with the pope, if not always as much a disciplinarian as I might like).

[patent]

>>>>He makes some good points, nonetheless.

In a nuke the planet from orbit sort of fashion, perhaps.

[Notwithstanding]

An abortion is Man's opinion that life is cheap.

[Gingersnap]

""Dear Archbishop Chaput,"

I'll be happy to pass this along. Not being Roman Catholic, I don't want get involved directly but her mother might.

I think one of the problems is that young woman is under the impression that 'grave sin' is a fairly subjective state. That is, if you feel it's a grave sin, it is, but if you don't, it isn't.

This isn't how my church sees it but who knows what she heard during discussions.

[patent]

>>>An abortion is Man's opinion that life is cheap.

An abortion is A man's (or a woman's) opinion that life is cheap. Regardless, how does that relate to the letter? I'm just not following you.

patent

[Notwithstanding]

I liked your tag line - thought I would respond to it.
Thats all - certainly a non-sequitur as to the thread itself.

[patent]

Thanks, I really thought I had gone daft. I should have gotten it, now that you mention it I've had the same thought. (which would make one think I should have understood your point).

patent

[murphE]

Here in my diocese the bishop has many bureaucracies under his control. One is busily organizing boycotts against Taco Bell who buys some tomatoes through brokers who deal with the local tomato farmers. The bishop has called for, and is working overtime on, a boycott of Taco Bell's parent company to force them to force the tomato growers to raise the pay of the pickers!

LOL! At my former parish I have heard 23 homilies on this exact subject! Did you know they only get a penny per pound picked? And it's not just Taco Bell, it's all of YUM Foods which includes KFC, .... Notice, I said my former parish. : )