Posted on 05/27/2004 7:10:58 AM PDT by AskStPhilomena
divine(sic)
The Eucharist: a reality, not just a symbol.
Christ did not found a book, He founded a Church, one Church. The Church gave us the Scriptures in the form we have then today and the Church interprets them. Scripture and Sacred Tradition are Christ's will.
Just for giggles, let's see what what the Church actually says, not what we think it might say:
432 The name Jesus signifies that the very name of God is present in the person of his Son, made man for the universal and definitive redemption from sins. It is the divine name that alone brings salvation, and henceforth all can invoke his name, for Jesus united himself to all men through his Incarnation, so that "there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved."
Nothing Christians don't already know, Jesus alone brings salvation.
CHRIST
is the
LONE INTERCESSOR
BETWEEN
God and man.
CHRIST IS
THE LIVING WORD.
Whenever, even in the Old Testament, man became too comfortable with even the boxes God had HIMESELF constructed vis a vis religion,
GOD BUSTED THEM UP.
Christ said call no man Father but our Heavenly Father.
But the bureaucracy has lists of rationalizations a mile long for it's officials to continue to act like pharisees; for the troops to continue slavish devotion to an organization
INSTEAD OF TO GOD
and for satan's realm to be gleefully involved instead of God's Holy Spirit directing individuals closer and closer to God.
The Roman church does not have a monopoly on this. But it is sure the most glaring example I know of.
FYI Catholic Family News is a Feeneyite publication. The SSPX, the SSPV and the sedevacantists all reject the belief of excommunicated priest Leonard Feeney that there is no salvation outside the Catholic Church. Even pre-Vatican II popes believed in baptism of desire and Feeney was excommunicated by none other than Pius XII. Feeney was the Catholic version of Bob Jones and Jack Chick.
SPEAKING OF
TRADITION!
CHRIST WAS RATHER HOSTILE
regarding the
TRADITIONS OF MEN.
I think the Roman church has raced off the galactic deep end with regard to TRADITIONS OF MEN.
Alas, virtually all Protestant orgs are close behind.
Does Christ speak in parables all the time in Scripture, or just when you wish Him to?
I don't have any fight to fight on that issue.
I can argue both sides of it.
I'm quite comfortable with my observance of The Lord's Supper.
I think it's so funny that you offer the Epistle to the Romans as evidence, since the very fact that the Epistle's in the canon (so spelled) at all is based on the reverent tradition of the self-same Roman Church that preserved the memory of Peter's presence from the beginning, and only subsequently on the authority of a successor of Peter, as the whole Church knew.
What traditions did St. Paul hold fast to and command others to follow?
"Therefore, brethren, stand fast: and hold the traditions, which you have learned, whether by word or by our epistle." (2 Thes. ii.14)
The Church of Christ, therefore, is the only ever enduring Church; and all who depart from it, depart from the will and command of Christ, our Lord. They have left the path of salvation and are heading towards destruction. (Satis Cognitum, encyclical of Pope Leo XIII, a.d. 1896)
Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necesssary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation…He explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed the necessity of the Church, which men enter as through a door. (Second Vatican Council, Lumen Gentium: The Dogmatic Constitution on the Church, 14)
It must of course be held as a matter of faith that outside the apostolic, Roman Church no one can be saved, that the Church is the only ark of salavation, and that whoever does not enter it will perish in the flood. (Pope Pius IX, allocution Singulari Quadam, a.d. 1854)
As I follow no leader save Christ, so I communicate with none with none but your blessedness, that is with the chair of Peter. For this, I know, is the rock on which the Church is built. That is the house where alone the paschal lamb can be rightly eaten. This is the ark of Noah, and he who is not found in it shall perish when the flood prevails. (St. Jerome, letter 15, to Pope Damasus,2)
This is the logical fallacy of "Poisoning the Well." If you have evidence that Catholic Family News is a "Feeneyite" publication, present it. If you think this article is tainted with "Feeneyism," then argue your point. Your comparison of Fr. Feeney to Bob Jones and Jack Chick is unwarranted calumny, as Fr. Feeney was orthodox except regarding the Baptism of Blood and Desire.
Do you think he's talking about traditions of men?
Have you really read the Old Testament and missed the parts about God Almighty upsetting even traditions HE had established?
How about Christ in the Gospels?
If one wants to be on God's side and attend to God's prioirities,
TRADITIONS are not a good place to start or end.
Protestantism in a nutshell: I'm quite comfortable with my...
It's not easy or comfortable, Quix, picking up our crosses and following Christ as He commands. Join us, and Him in the fullness of Christian faith.
I suspect I know more than 95% of the Christians I know about the sufferings of taking up one's Cross and following Jesus.
I have 0.000000000000000000000000000% to apologize for on that score.
Assumptions are hazardous.
Wery good then. So, establish the canon of Scripture and explain where the idea of "sola scriptura" comes from without any reference to a tradition.
SD
And Romans
appear to be quite comfortable
to slip and slide along within the bobsled run of the Roman Traditions pretending that doing so
fulfills their part of their relationship with God.
When CHRIST DECLARED
MY SHEEP KNOW MY
VOICE
and God is clearly intent on our RELATIONSHIP WITH HIM
TO THE AVOIDANCE OF
RELIGION!
Protestants are little to no better on that score, however.
Sigh.
The Catechism is a product of the Magisterium and Holy Tradition. Which are both valid sources of dogma, along with Scripture, for Catholics. So the objection given does not "backfire" on us.
Only Protestants believe in "sola scriptura," so only Protestants are hypocrites when referencing their own extra-scriptural sources and traditions.
SD
In humility, seeking Holy Spirit's guidance,
READ THE TEXT.
GO DO THE TEXT.
Not that difficult a concept.
Chinese Christians in China do it all the time with scraps of Scripture
AND GOD CONFIRMS WITH MANY MIRACLES FOLLOWING.
No tradition of any kind involved AT ALL.
I guess God has a different perspective than the Romans on it as He confirms such quite liberally, quite constantly, there.
The Romans may have a big box.
But even their big box is subatomic compared to God.
HE WILL *******NEVER******* FIT IN IT.
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