Posted on 05/01/2004 2:10:36 PM PDT by Phx_RC
Of course you don't like the way Christ taught, we know that.
Amazing you liberal AmChurch modernists always LOVE to quote the story of the Adulterous Woman in front of the crowd, but somehow always FORGOT to mention Christ humiliated the same crowd. Did that humiliation work for Christ you think? I honestly don't think Christ cares you think of him as an ogre.
You need not to keep making excuses for these disobedient subversives of the church. You all know what you have been doing. NO more talking. Straighten up, shut up, or ship out. Purge is coming to Fort Worth soon. Your 40 years old AmChurch empire is crumbling.
God bless bishop Olmsted of Pheonix. May the might of Christ strenghten him in face of harden sinners, especially the clergy.
Christ humiliated his apostles in public?
This is basic human skills management: don't humiliate your employees in public.
Your example doesn't work, as this priest is a brother to Olmsted, in the clergy, and Olmsted is acting, with all due respect, like a bully. Paul said that correction should first be made in private.
If you think this is the way to work with people, you've obviously never been a manager.
As the character of Thomas More said to Cromwell in "A Man for all Seasons":
"Terror is for children. Not for me."
So whether or not the Bishop confronted them in private, to confront them in public given their previous public stand would be entirely appropriate.
Besides I'm not sure this bishop see these guys as true servants of the church. He may very well see them as infiltrators. If you are trying to get a disruptive employee to resign, and make an example for the rest of your employees. You might very well call them down in public.
I disagree. Fraternal correction is best not done in a public way.
If Olmsted's philosophy is like Patton's, that he'd rather be feared than loved, he's well on his way to accomplishing that.
I had the opportunity to speak to an insider about Bishop Olmstead. He is not a grandstander. That is not his way. He prefers to take care of things quietly, so I am going to give him the benefit of the doubt and assume that he did attempt to take care of this out of the public eye.
Then ask them to take their names down. It will be noticed. It's clear that Olmsted is trying to send a message, but this, IMO, is not the way to do it, by slapping the priests you expect to talk up your diocesan fund drive in the fall. What goes around comes around.
If it comes down to being feared for standing with scripture verses being loved for watering scripture down. I would rather be feared too.
As I said, Olmsted is trying to send a message. There are other ways to do that.
Why don't you blow the dust of your bible, sinky?
Yes, Christ humiliated his apostles (and followers) in public. "Get behind me, Satan....", "Put your finger in my hand, Thomas .....", also John 6, where a whole pile of Christ's followers left after their public humiliation.
Your liberal AmChurch touchy feely egoes are just TOO BIG to fit in the confessional, imo.
I don't know if this means anything to you,but I believe that you could not help but be appreciative of Bishop Olmsted. He is highly intelligent,holy and humble. I have watched him meet people throughoout the diocese and he has a remarkable pastoral quality that shines through,he is amazing.
He also has chosen to live at the rectory in two rooms rather than the bishop's home in a vry nice neighborhood in Central Phoenix. He has also treated the ex-bishop with a graciousness that that bespeaks his respect for the dignity of God's creations.
If that's the way Olmsted handled THIS matter, that's great.
Suspending Cunningham is a bit much, IMO.
Father Cunningham is so often in the news for some type of kooky idea/activity or another,that it is hard to keep track of just what he is up to in any one particular week.
One article published in the last two weeks quotes another priest as reporting that when Cunningham was the ass't vocations director he left a $500.00 tip in a rstaurant. He had taken the seminarians (and we have never had many) out to dinner. When questioned about the size of the tip he responded:"the service was good and the waiter was cute".
Several years ago fr. Cunningham concelebrated Mass with a female Episcopalean minister. At that time we heard that he was suspended,then we heard his family put so much pressure on Rome as well as our bishop, that the suspension or defrocking,or whatever,was rescinded.
About the same time he invited the Jesus seminar people in to hold a conference at his church. The bishop said he couldn't and it was held at an Episcopalean church in the area. Fr.Cunningham was in snit over that one.
Around Christmas fr. C. devoted one of his columns in the Tribune to his idea of "sprituality". There was not even a resemblance of anything Catholic in it. I am trying to find it because it was so gnostic. Basically,when you ended your search for God,i think he concluded by saying,we would find god was us,or something equally goofy.
His old parish is into enneagrams and mazes and other interesting things.
Finally,a short while ago,he officiated at a wedding at another Catholic Church,whether the minister concelebrated or gave out the Eucharist wiith him does remain unclear,which is probably why they are investigating.As you probably can see,or at least imagine,fr.Cunningham's indiscretions were widely publicized,many by virtue of his own public letters,columnsa and advertising.
i hope this helps you to understand that whatever Bishop Olmsted did could never possibly been reportd correctly by the media,due in a large part to the spinning and swirling of the fr. himself.It's hard for anyone to hit a moving,weaving noisy target.
See the second link in 'Phx-RC's post #3 from the Arizona Republic. This is the first sentence (bolding mine:
"Bishop Thomas J. Olmsted privately has ordered nine Catholic priests to withdraw their support from an interfaith statement supporting gay rights."
These Priests released (or gave the gist of) the letter publicly, not the Bishop.
The Bishop is just following the new Instruction:
[172.] Graviora delicta against the sanctity of the Most August Sacrifice and Sacrament of the Eucharist are to be handled in accordance with the ‘Norms concerning graviora delicta reserved to the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith’,[280] namely: ...c) the forbidden concelebration of the Eucharistic Sacrifice with ministers of Ecclesial Communities that do not have the apostolic succession nor acknowledge the sacramental dignity of priestly Ordination; (Redemptionis Sacramentum)
And it was a "concelebration", not "serving communion" as the column reports:
"In the language of the church, Father Cunningham allegedly engaged in the forbidden concelebration of the Eucharistic Sacrifice with a non-Catholic minister," said a statement released by the diocese Wednesday night. It was termed "celebrating the Mass in a manner that is inconsistent with Catholic teaching." (Priest Suspended Over Communion)
Initially, privately.
Tell him to cut it out.
If he does it again, then hit with both barrels.
How's the baby girl?
This is what must be done in the case of priests who attempt to "concelebrate" with the non-ordained. Certainly such an action is an indicator of heresy as well as a sacrilege - the priest probably doesn't believe this if he would do such a thing:
CANON VII.--If any one saith, that bishops are not superior to priests; or, that they have not the power of confirming and ordaining; or, that the power which they possess is common to them and to priests; or, that orders, conferred by them, without the consent, or vocation of the people, or of the secular power, are invalid; or, that those who have neither been rightly ordained, nor sent, by ecclesiastical and canonical power, but come from elsewhere, are lawful ministers of the word and of the sacraments; let him be anathema. (Council of Trent, Sess. XXIII)
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