INTRODUCING “REDEMPTIONIS SACRAMENTUM”

Vatican ^ | April 23, 2004 | Francis Cardinal Arinze

[Maximilian]

It would help if he knew something about music and art before setting up commissions on the topic.

LOL. But don't you realize that the entire purpose of setting up commissions is to avoid the need to actually learn anything about a topic?

[RockDoc]

Vatican Cracks Down on Liturgical Abuses

By NICOLE WINFIELD, Associated Press Writer

VATICAN CITY - The Vatican (news - web sites) insisted Friday that lay people must not deliver sermons or preach the Gospel during Mass, issuing a new directive to crack down on practices that are becoming increasingly frequent in the United States and Europe.

The document, commissioned by Pope John Paul (news - web sites) II, softened a draft that had discouraged the use of altar girls and denounced such practices as applauding and dancing during Mass. But it was still likely to raise concern among Roman Catholics and — if followed — will likely change the way liturgies are celebrated worldwide.

Cardinal Francis Arinze, whose Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments issued the document, said the majority of priests celebrate Mass correctly and stressed the directive was not intended to be "repressive" but merely to remind Catholics of church teaching.

However, the document said some practices were "not infrequently" plaguing Masses, and that in some places "the perpetration of liturgical abuses has become almost habitual, a fact which obviously cannot be allowed and must cease."

The directive restated church teaching on all aspects of the liturgy, from the type of vestments a priest should wear, to the timing of his prayers and the types of bread and wine used at Communion.

It paid particular attention to the role of lay people in the Mass — an issue of particular concern in places where priests are increasingly in short supply.

In the United States, for example, where more than 3,000 of the 19,000 parishes did not have a resident priest last year, lay people have taken on a greater role, sometimes leading worship services and delivering homilies.

But the document said only priests and deacons may read the Gospel and priests "should ordinarily" deliver the homily, in which biblical readings are often interpreted for worshippers. The priest may occasionally delegate the homily to a deacon, "but never to a lay person."

If there is no priest to celebrate Mass, a bishop may name a lay person as an "extraordinary minister of Holy Communion" — but that should only be when necessity dictates it and for a specific time, the document said.

It said anyone conscious of being in grave sin shouldn't receive Communion without going to confession — a regulation that prompted questions about whether priests should deny Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry (news - web sites) Communion because of his support for abortion rights.

Arinze told a news conference that U.S. bishops should decide about Kerry. When pressed about the church's general position about Catholic politicians who are "unambiguously pro-abortion," Arinze said they should be denied Communion because they are "not fit" to receive it.

The document also touched on other aspects of the Mass which are likely to resonate in the United States and elsewhere:

The gesture of exchanging the peace greeting should only be done "to those who are nearest and in a sober manner." In many U.S. parishes, the exchange can go on for some time, with the priest greeting many worshippers.


The introduction of rites taken from other religions into Mass is forbidden, and priests may not celebrate Mass in a temple or sacred place of any non-Christian religion.

Priests should be careful not to allow non-Catholics and non-Christians to take Communion.

It is "altogether laudable" to use altar boys at Mass; girls and women may also be used.

John Paul commissioned the document last year after issuing an encyclical — his most authoritative type of teaching — on abuses concerning Communion, the sacrament in which Roman Catholics believe they receive the blood and body of Christ

[RFT1]

I doubt this document will make any real i mpact for the real hetrodox parishes, but it may give some younger priests some cover when they want to re introduce more traditional aspects to the mass.

[wciappetta]

They were praying to Jesus. but to pray to someone who is believed to be passed on into heaven such as Mary, as a go between us and Jesus is foolish and wrong especially since Jesus himself says when you ask anything of the Father he says you are to ask in my name.

John 16:23 And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you.

He wasn't talking to just the apostles either..... Hey these aren't my Words Check it out for yourself. Read the Bible If Jesus says one thing and the church says another,guess who you should be listening to? like in my original post these are the commandments of men and not the Words of God. Jesus himself warning all of us to beware such things.

[Arguss]

I don't want to rain on your fine example, but nowhere in that example does Aiken, or even Paul suggest to pray to any Saint or Angel, or Mary - only to Jesus Himself. In the intercessory prayer mentioned, we are the intercessors.

But, if as the Church insists, which it did before Vatican II, that we may pray to Jesus through the Saints, espcially through Mary, then we can be assured that He will not be jealous, and will answer our prayers as He sees fit.

[BlackElk]

Desdemona, I probably am about to violate all the norms of Freeping, but perhaps you'll bear with me. He doesn't have to know something about music and art. He just has to know someone who knows. Ratzinger works; observe that Ratzinger's congregation had its hand in this document. Have you checked out the section on vestments? It is very hard core, in fact cause to, you should forgive the expression, celebrate. (I've forgotten what my husband told me about paragraph breaks. Consider this one of those.) Perhaps the best thing so far (I've read nearly half) is the tone of voice. "This abuse is to be corrected with all haste." "This abuse is reprobated." Golly. It's Rome talking like Rome. Cheer up. This is from the wife of Black Elk, who doesn't know how to Freep.

[Desdemona]

Yes, but Mrs. BlackElk, what is the guarantee that a bishop's friend actually knows something about music or art. In my experience, they have been very limited and the commissions come up with suggestions that do not demonstrate any knowledge of music and art.

[Arguss]

Thank you for your greeting. I am not anybody's re-inforcement, especially those who would pick apart the Catholic faith. Actually I am the host of a traditional, conservative, bulletin board type, discussion group, and have been ivolved in apologetics for many years. Please believe I am not trying to come off as an expert, which I most certainly am not.

I also could have cited many examples, as you just did, but my comment was directed specifically to the one example you used initially. And in that example, nowhere did St. Paul or James Aiken mention praying to dead people on behalf of the living. The mention of Saints praying is in reference to living saints, such as you and I, which is what members of the Church were called in those days.

So, in that context, it was not a good example to give to a non believer, as it didn't address any of his concerns. Indeed, even Protestants pray for each other, which is what your example exhorted us to do.

Actually I pity the poor Protestants who when they die have nobody to pray for them. But they brought that upon themselves when they walked out the door.

[gemoftheocean]

There plenty of other ways she may serve. Why must altar servers be another playground for the leftists to foist their agenda on everyone?

Yes, I suppose she can pass out the cookies after mass, and be sure to clean her far superior brother's room up and wash his jock strap for him too so he can get to mass on time.

Seriously, though a good case can be made by the church why holy orders should only be for men, there is zip, zero, NADA argument that is convincing that girls must be denied from assisting at the altar. Since '69 or '70 minor orders were abolished (and prior to that certainly no 8 year old boys ever were installed in the minor order of "acolyte" in your Joe Average Parish.) If you'd read your catechism it says that ALL of the laity are equal, and last I looked girls are part of ALL of the laity.

If you seriously think justice, fairness, and equity are "leftist playgound" issue, I feel sorry for you, and sincerely hope that you NEVER have a daughter, as for you she will NEVER be "as good" as any of her brothers.

If you feel that a girl handing cruets to a priest at mass is a "threat" to you, then that's pretty lame, and you must be a little bundle of insecurities about your faith.

[RockDoc]

You might try reading this: http://www.totustuus.com/girlservers.htm

[gemoftheocean]

Frankly, the "Essay" is patently both offensive and non-sensical. NO argument is given why girls *intrinsicly" can't serve at the altar. Just appeals to social custom. Hello: "Social customs" change. "Girl Altar Boys" is a repugnant term, in that it's implied that in order for girls to be considered "worth something" they have to become some sort of pseudo-"Boy." IF it was a practise for the altar servers and the priest to do a ritual gang shower stripped naked before mass...then you might have something. I know of no church ritual which requires such a thing. Trust me, I've looked all through the GIRM and it isn't there.

To argue that some girl serving at mass has been the cause for the fall-off in vocations to the priesthood is flat-out stupid. [Now please don't run off bawling to the moderator "like a little girl" that I called you "stupid." I called the argument stupid.] Numero uno, if someone's alleged "Call to the altar" to serve as a priest is stopped by the sight of a 9 year old girl handing a priest a cruet at mass, then it wasn't much of a "calling." That's like saying because some 9 year old girl on a co-ed little league team hit a Texas leaguer off a boy pitcher, that he's going to take his ball, go home, and never become the next Nolan Ryan. This "drop off" happened WAY before girls routinely served at the altar. Try again, sherlock.

For extra credit: Tell me why the following TRUE situation was "equitable, just, and right" -- tell me why if you had a daughter in the following situation, you can explain to her how the boy in question had so much more right to hand the priest the cruets at mass than she did:

year: 1970-1971 place(s): St. John Eudes Catholic Church, Chatsworth, Ca. Ernest Lawrence Jr. High School---9th grade English class dramatis personae: Boy who shall be named "John" Girl who shall be named "Mary"

"John" is one of the head altar boys. John regularly serves mass. He has a penis. He is "entitled." [He does not really have "the faith" but that is immaterial, he has a penis, and that is what matters. He was baptised, just like John Kerry.]

"Mary" is John's age. They attend school together. In fact, they have some classes together. Can Mary serve mass? No. She is "just a girl" the church does not deem her worthy to hand the priest the cruets. Some insecure little boy might be swayed away from his future calling to be a priest if he sees Mary assisting at the altar. Mary sees John serve mass at least twice a month, with perks like getting to be thurifer at high masses throughout the year.

There is a "debate" in English class in the public school. "John" vociferously argues that abortion should be legal. yes. This same pure-faced altar boy. No matter he recieves communion all the time...no matter idiots in the pews think "Ah, there's a future priest"...."John" what will later be termed a "cafeteria catholic."

Mary? Mary is on the debate team OPPOSITE John. While most of her budding liberal classmates are on John's side (John is an easy sucker for peer pressure, but MAry is not) Mary argues pro-life. Mary is concious of her duty to defend the faith, unlike dirtbag John who goes out of his way to say religions shouldn't "push their morals on other people." [BTW, John was not "Assigned" the pro-abort position, the kids were asked to sign up for the side they could in conscience support. John was a true-blue abortion rights supporter.]

Would Mary have given anything to be able to assist the priest at mass? Yes. Did she "Defend the faith?" Yes. Was she a better catholic than John? Yes. How come she couldn't serve mass? She didn't have a penis. "PEnis envy," in this case? No. More like "penis disgust." Disgust that FOR NO GOOD REASON, she was not allowed to assist at mass. This particular "Mary" remained a good and faithful catholic, because she knew in her heart that JESUS would never have refused her....it was just a stupid social custom that prevented her. As for the "John?" Who knows? Maybe he repented of his non-catholic ways. Maybe he is now an abortionist himself.

Question: How many "Jills" saw the above true story, or similar situations and "lost the faith" because they were sick of the hypocrisy? People can only take so much crap. Not everyone is strong enough to retain the faith and not let stupid social customs in the church turn them from the eucharist. Unfortunately, load too many of these experiences on some people and they fall away from the church for no good DOCTRINAL reason.

Some people can actually see the inequities and the injustice in the above situation, which really happened. You won't be one of them.

In Paul's letter to Timothy, he complains about some women wearing braids and pearls too. Customs change. OR does your overly romanticized ritual have a "pearl/and braid" male porter at the door to chuck kids in braids and women with pearls out on their ears?

Try not being such a "pharisee" sometimes. Figure out WHY a rule is/was in place. A temporary discipline? A social custom? A response to counteract a current topic? [Can we eat sacrificed meats without giving offense?]

Sure it's great if boys serve at the altar. It's also great when girls do so as well. And it's even better when they actually PRACTISE the faith outside of mass.

[RockDoc]

Why get so exercised - All I said was "You might try reading this". I made no comment at all - just thought it was an interesting read. People like you make it difficult to have a civil conversation. You remind me of Sister Scarecrow on our Liturgy Committee.

[gemoftheocean]

Relax. I DID at least read the document to see if there was some support for "male only" altar servers that I had overlooked. I hadn't.

[johnb2004]

You sound like a castrating type female who thinks secular notions of equality equal holiness. I accept what Rome teaches. They allow altar girls if the bishop and priest allow them to serve. I see few good arguments as to why they are needed. I see many arguments as to why they should not be allowed. The chief argument is that altar boys are a way to encourage and discern vocations to the priesthood.

Your posts only prove what many already know to be true. Those who want girl altar boys have a left wing agenda and have problems accepting that men and women are not interchangeable in every single circumstance.

[gemoftheocean]

Boo-hoo-hoo, my little sister could rollerskate faster than I could and I never got over it, so I'm damn well going to make sure every female I ever meet that shows the least little bit of assertiveness to stand up for herself and other females who are getting an unfair deal get called a 'castrating type female' that ought to make her go cry in the corner. Whatever, dude.