[orionblamblam]

> In a fire, definate contamination from movement of gaseous products can change the overall molecular level mixture.

Errrr.... no. A piece of linen on fire still only has it's own carbon. Fire does nothign to it, with the exception of turning some of it to carbon dioxide, and this is doen at an equal ratio regardless of isotope. Any carbon dioxide in the air nearby *remains* carbon dioxide at any fire temperature likely to be found Way Back Then.

> Do you know how the image was formed?

Artificially seems by far the most likely explanation.

> I am quite certain it was not faked.

I have this bridge...

[shroudie]

Look, if you want to believe it is a fake, go ahead. You said earlier that it was painted. Fine. The fact that there is no paint in the images makes this highly suspect. But believe what you want. But do get your facts straight if you wish to try to convince others. And, do a bit of reading on the carbon 14 problems.

http://shroudstory.com/faq-carbon-14.htm

http://shroudstory.com/faq-fakery.htm

http://shroudstory.com/faq-chemistry.htm

Shroudie

[Swordmaker]

In a fire, definate contamination from movement of gaseous products can change the overall molecular level mixture.

Errrr.... no. A piece of linen on fire still only has it's own carbon.

Errr, Orionblamblam, were you aware the fire under discussion was not JUST the shroud burning all by itself, but included a wooden cathedral, the silver chased reliquary, the draperies draped over the reliquary, books, wooden statues ALL of which contributed carbon from their medieval grown source plants in the form of soot that COULD have infused the linen of the Shroud. With sufficient heat, carbon from those sources could be included with the sample that was later Carbon 14 tested.

That being said, there IS NO EVIDENCE on the Shroud of soot from those sources and certainly not in sufficient quantity to skew the C14 date by 1200 years.

At the submicroscopic level there is evidence of the Bio-plastic coating on individual fibers of the Shroud's threads. However, it TOO is insufficient in quantity to skew the date that much. Both soot and germ poop together are insufficient to skew the date by that much.

Both of these theories of why the Carbon 14 dates were so out of sync with the other scholarship are irrelevant!

WE KNOW WHY THE C14 DATA IS WRONG.

The impeccable work done by the three C14 laboratories was doomed to failure from the moment the agreed testing protocols were discarded (literally at the last moment) in favor of taking the sample from the ONE area on the Shroud almost all scientists involved in the project agreed should be avoided. The labs were given samples that were not exemplar with the main Shroud material in that it contained added a large percentage of contemporary FRENCH linen rewoven into the Shroud linen in either 1535 or 1552 by the Nuns of Poor Clare when they were repairing damage done to the Shroud over the years.

It is so obvious you can even SEE the change from one type of linen to the other in the pretest photos of the actual tested samples in Reply 30 which presents a summary of the evidence.

Orionblamblam, why don't you open your eyes and your mind and look at the evidence instead of just beating a dead horse. [shroudie, I know what I said in my last post... but I had to try... :^) ]