Posted on 04/11/2004 1:46:16 AM PDT by Destro
At the moment when he took a taper to give of the divine fire to all of those in the church who had torches, scarcely had he come out of the tomb, when he saw the church suddenly filled with a divine light. The faithful were standing on the right and the left, some near the door, some by Calvary, others near the cruciform chain suspended from the ceiling and all around which they had hung their lamps, the chain, that is, which passes for representing the center of the world and which is there as a sign, so that all men might be astonished at the apparition of the divine fire. Niketas, 947 A.D.
The same source also tells that a governor brought a copper wire instead of a wick, in order that it won't ignite and the whole thing would fail to occur. But as the fire descended, the copper burned. The descent of this fire from above on a day, which recurs after a specified time span, gives us occasion to be astounded..Muslim historian al-Biruni, 1000 A.D.
The the 11th century Christian writer Abelfaragius quoted a Muslim detractor of the Easter Eve ritual
. . . When the Christians assembled in their Temple at Jerusalem to celebrate Easter, the chaplains of the Church, making use of a pious fraud, greased the chain of iron that held the lamp over the Tomb with oil of balsam; and . . . when the Arab officer sealed up the door which led to the Tomb, they applied a match, and the fire descended immediately to the wick of the lamp and lighted it. Then the worshipers burst into tears and cried out Kyrie Eleison, supposing it was fire which fell from heaven upon the Tomb; and they were strengthened in their faith.
Somehow I think the Greeks can make an electrostatic discharge happen (and did so before the science of electricity was known) that lights the lamps through ritual that is not deceptive but can be explained through sceince. The blue fire that does not burn is "ball lightning", IMHO.
“I had heard about the Holy Fire and was, when I made my trip to Jerusalem for Pascha, not disbelieving. I found the idea that such a phenomenon existed interesting, and I wanted to see it for myself. What I saw was interesting. ...The Church was crowded beyond description. Before the manifestation of the Holy Fire, the Arabs created a tremendous scene, proclaiming the correctness of their Faith and running here and there through the Church.... Then the Holy Fire was brought out by the Patriarch. During this time, I could see what appeared to be flashes of blue-colored light bouncing off the walls of the dome of the Church and through the galleries. There was an electric quality to the air, almost like static electricity.”
Dr. Eugene Zavarin
Professor of Chemistry (Retired)
Wood Products Laboratory
University of California, Berkeley
I'm sure it is difficult to have faith from outside the church and I don't blame anyone here for their inabilities. Orthodox Christianity is an experiential faith, this miracle is an exclusive one, and it is difficult to leave behind what you have relied on for your entire life - weak, human, logic and rational thinking. It usually takes years within the church to see how faulty our reliance on ourselves truly is, and to heal the schism between our mind and hearts. I hope someday you are able to experience a taste of this.
It always amazes me to see those who think that science and human logic can minimize God to a textbook explanation. God surpasses all of your weaknesses and imperfections. Truth will never be found with your ability to reason. Reliance on this ability is an incredible burden, and it took me years to shed it. But narrow is the gate.
The Orthodox are not free from sin, and I have said here before that we are contentious. If you think your critical thinking skills are reliable, though, you might want to take a second look at what you have posted. The Armenians are not Orthodox. And it is funny to me how quickly you accept the truth of the secular press...I am thinking of the many times those in your church have indignantly posted about the same issue. But only in reference to your own church, of course. So much for critical thinking.
"The biggest challenges confronting the critics are the thousands of independent testimonies by pilgrims whose candles were lit spontaneously in front of their eyes without any possible explanation. According to our investigations, it has never been possible to film any of the candles or oillamps igniting by themselves. However, I am in the possession of a video filmed by a young engineer from Bethlehem, Souhel Nabdiel. Mr. Nabdiel has been present at the ceremony of the Holy Fire since his early childhood. In 1996 he was asked to film the ceremony from the balcony of the dome of the Church. Present with him on the balcony were a nun and four other believers. The nun stood at the right hand of Nabdiel. On the video one can see how he films down on the crowds. At a certain point all lights are turned off – it is time for the Patriarch to enter the tomb and take the Holy Fire. While he is still inside the tomb one suddenly hears a scream of surprise and wonder originating from the nun standing next to Nabdiel. The camera begins to shake, as one hears the excited voices of the other people present on the balcony. The camera now turns to the right, whereby it is possible to contemplate the cause of the emotion. A big candle, held in the hand of the Russian nun, takes fire in front of all people present before the patriarch comes out of the tomb. With shaking hands she holds the candle while over and over making the sign of the Cross in awe of the potent she has witnessed. This video appears to be the closest one gets to an actual filming of the miracle."
And into infinity could I continue to post writings such as these to "support" the truth of the miracle. It is only the choice of which writing to believe, in the end. So what is the point of posting them at all? And specifically what (or who) motivates those who feel a need to discredit the Holy Fire?
I leave you to continue the discussion without my contributions, because you will certainly all come to agreement, based on your mutual reliance on "critical thinking" or science, or any one of the many other humanist idols of the west. :-)
May His peace be with you.
Please don't refer to "my church". I haven't been there in years, due in part to my "critical thinking"; i.e., not accepting everything shoved at me and if you don't protect yourself, you will get things shoved at you that fall into the category of myths and fables mixed in with gospel truth.
Now it is my turn to be offended because I dared to question.
Go here and scroll down to the very last baby goat on a bottle.
We picked him up down by Medford last week. We will name him Macarius and call him Mack for short. He is so funny. All the way home at the rest stops he was running and kicking his legs in the air. A lot of people thought we were very odd to have a baby goat traveling with us. But he did fine. He napped with me on the back floor of the van. He is very cuddly.
But I cannot forgive you for giving me a bad link to your new baby.
It is some microbiology thingy and I can't even code it to embed it in my reply.
http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/pagerender.fcgi?artid=263008&pageindex=2
In any case if it was as easy as lighting a match then the non-Orthodox would have lost the ceremony to the other denominations who would have picked up on said trick and made it their own or exposed it for a fraud long ago. Since many of these denominations are extremly hostile to the Orthodoxm I doubt they would waste the opportunity to do so.
Who made him, Aliska?
What did God say to Job?
Meet our newest buckling at Mar Mema. His name is Macarius.
What did God say to Job? I can't remember. Was it somethng like "Why don't you reinstall windows and reboot and I will guide you in the paths of your hard drive to the folder called 'cure for boils'?"
I could look it up but I'm tired and I was trying to find something in Peter tonight.
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