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The Pelagian Captivity of the Church
Alliance of Confessing Evangelicals ^
| R. C. Sproul
Posted on 02/07/2004 12:26:51 PM PST by Gamecock
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To: CCWoody
And, after picking myself up off the floor from laughing so hard that the Arminian has, ONCE again, hung himself with his own tongue, I asked him to impeach his own theology with that accusation. Why don't you answer the original question with an answer instead of a question, and then I will respond in kind. You never answered my question. You just turned it around. Fine, turnabout is fair play. But, first you must answer my question. After you are done, feel free to turn it around. I am prepared to answer, but as long as you refuse to respond to my questions, I will refuse to respond to yours. After all, turnabout is fair play, eh?
261
posted on
02/09/2004 6:08:25 PM PST
by
P-Marlowe
(LPFOKETT GAHCOEEP-w/o* &AAGG & Former member of PWAODSDNPOPTML)
To: drstevej
***Better reword that one, Woodrow....***
Well, I was accused of that once by a presently posting Arminian.
Woody.
262
posted on
02/09/2004 6:09:49 PM PST
by
CCWoody
(Recognize that all true Christians will be Calvinists in glory,...)
To: drstevej
263
posted on
02/09/2004 6:11:40 PM PST
by
CCWoody
(Recognize that all true Christians will be Calvinists in glory,...)
To: OrthodoxPresbyterian
Wow! We not only have a "theologian," but an english teacher, huh? Good shot, but it won't work.
Thanks for the advice, I suggest you try practicing some of your own theology that is NOT revisionist! Want to try taking it from the Greek, or which inerrantly inspired translation/version/paraphrase are you using. My point stands, and no amount of twisting and turning can change the facts.
264
posted on
02/09/2004 6:19:02 PM PST
by
Vernon
(Sir "Ol Vern" aka Brother Maynard, a child of the King!)
To: Vernon; drstevej; CCWoody
Wow! We not only have a "theologian," but an english teacher, huh? Good shot, but it won't work. Thanks for the advice, I suggest you try practicing some of your own theology that is NOT revisionist! Want to try taking it from the Greek, or which inerrantly inspired translation/version/paraphrase are you using. My point stands, and no amount of twisting and turning can change the facts.
The bottom line being that, even if we establish "Believing God" in verse 12 as the necessity for Adoption into God's Family (and this is certainly true), Verse 13 goes on to tell us that the existence of this Belief in the Man CANNOT EVER be ascribed to Man's Will, and MUST ALWAYS be ascribed to God's Will alone. SO, according to Verse 13 -- You can define "Belief in God" any way you like, as long as it is "NOT of the will of the flesh, NOR of the will of man, but of God".
Nah, nah nah nah... Can't touch this.
To: P-Marlowe
I am prepared to answer, but as long as you refuse to respond to my questions, I will refuse to respond to yours. After all, turnabout is fair play, eh?What about me?
So, when God permits Murder, is His Will to grant such Permission -- imperfect?
236 posted on 02/09/2004 5:14:30 PM PST by OrthodoxPresbyterian
Just wonderin'....
To: Vernon
Thanks for the advice, I suggest you try practicing some of your own theology that is NOT revisionist! Want to try taking it from the Greek, or which inerrantly inspired translation/version/paraphrase are you using. My point stands, and no amount of twisting and turning can change the facts. Good idea, Vern. Why don't you explain to us the meaning of Acts 13:48 FROM THE GREEK.
267
posted on
02/09/2004 6:25:26 PM PST
by
Frumanchu
(semper ubis sub ubis)
To: OrthodoxPresbyterian
Try this..."...but as many as received him he gave to them authority children of God to be, to those that believe on name his..." That sir, is the Greek, and there ain't none of your parsing and spinning there. The authority to become children of God was - and is - conditioned on them and our receiving Him!
Certainly the power to become a child of God came from God; however, it is very clear that it is conditioned on receiving him, and it doesn't say one word other than that. End of issue - Period.
268
posted on
02/09/2004 6:30:22 PM PST
by
Vernon
(Sir "Ol Vern" aka Brother Maynard, a child of the King!)
To: Frumanchu
Naw, you have all the infallible, inerrant answers...I await your insight.
269
posted on
02/09/2004 6:31:48 PM PST
by
Vernon
(Sir "Ol Vern" aka Brother Maynard, a child of the King!)
To: Vernon
Nope. I insist. You appear to prefer going right to the Greek. The English, as translated in every translation I can find, certainly seems to indicate that appointment unto eternal life preceded their belief instead of being the result of it. I'm curious to see how you explain that away. Perhaps the Greek shows us something the English does not?
270
posted on
02/09/2004 6:36:36 PM PST
by
Frumanchu
(semper ubis sub ubis)
To: Vernon
Try this..."...but as many as received him he gave to them authority children of God to be, to those that believe on name his..." That sir, is the Greek, and there ain't none of your parsing and spinning there. The authority to become children of God was - and is - conditioned on them and our receiving Him! Certainly the power to become a child of God came from God; however, it is very clear that it is conditioned on receiving him, and it doesn't say one word other than that. End of issue - Period.Sorry, cuz... you can't just arbitrarily lop off the First Chapter of John at Verse 12 and anti-Biblically pretend that Verse 13, which gives explanation to Verse 12 (note the colon? English punctuation is useful!), does not exist. Homey don't play dat.
And as verse 13 explains -- you can define Spiritual Regeneration anyway you like, as long as man's Will is NEVER party to the equation.
"them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God."
- "Them that believe" is here Present Tense.
- "Which were born" is here Past Tense.
Ergo, Spiritual Regeneration precedes Belief, and is created wholly by God's Will Alone with Man's Will playing no part in Spiritual Regeneration whatsoever.
To: OrthodoxPresbyterian
There are more ways to be satisfied sexually than intercourse that are not outside of God's will.
272
posted on
02/09/2004 6:38:56 PM PST
by
connectthedots
(Recognize that not all Calvinists will be Christians in glory.)
To: Frumanchu
Must.....not.....get.....suspended........ Must.....not.....mention.....ex-wife.....
To: connectthedots
There are more ways to be satisfied sexually than intercourse that are not outside of God's will.Regarding various forms of Marital sexual interaction -- I will say that I think that Onan had an anti-childbearing, contraceptive mindset towards his wife, which I do think to be a sinful attitude of mind.
However, if a Couple does not suffer from such an attitude... then as to their diverse sexual activities, Where the Bible is silent, I am silent.
To: Frumanchu
Well, take a look at it. The fact is that this verse has been tragically twisted. The actual word used here for "ordained" includes no idea of pre-ordination or pre-destination of any kind. Even if it did, which it does not, it is an incredible extension to even suggest that they persevered to the end.
275
posted on
02/09/2004 6:46:50 PM PST
by
Vernon
(Sir "Ol Vern" aka Brother Maynard, a child of the King!)
To: OrthodoxPresbyterian
Amazing what contortions one will go through in a effort to support what simply is not there.
276
posted on
02/09/2004 6:48:55 PM PST
by
Vernon
(Sir "Ol Vern" aka Brother Maynard, a child of the King!)
To: OrthodoxPresbyterian
No one is lopping off anything...that is straight from the Greek, and those who don't like the way it reads will have to write their own version, which some have been doing for quite some time. Slowly the truth is being realized.
277
posted on
02/09/2004 6:52:03 PM PST
by
Vernon
(Sir "Ol Vern" aka Brother Maynard, a child of the King!)
To: Vernon
I'm long overdue to leave here and get some things done. Ya'all have fun. Keep twisting and explaining away. I'll eventually back.
278
posted on
02/09/2004 6:55:20 PM PST
by
Vernon
(Sir "Ol Vern" aka Brother Maynard, a child of the King!)
To: Alex Murphy; Frumanchu
You people are vicious.
To: Vernon
Well, take a look at it. The fact is that this verse has been tragically twisted. The actual word used here for "ordained" includes no idea of pre-ordination or pre-destination of any kind. Even if it did, which it does not, it is an incredible extension to even suggest that they persevered to the end.Now when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and glorified the word of the Lord. And as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed. -Acts 13:48 (NKJV)
Seems to me that the verb believed refers back to the relative clause as many as had been appointed to eternal life. It doesn't say "and as many as believed were appointed unto eternal life." Their appointment to eternal life preceded their belief, and moreover their belief manifest a prior distinction between them and the other Gentiles who did not believe. They (those who were appointed to eternal life) believed. The others (those who were not appointed to eternal life) did not. Seems pretty cut and dry to me, in English anyway.
280
posted on
02/09/2004 6:56:51 PM PST
by
Frumanchu
(semper ubis sub ubis)
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