Posted on 11/25/2003 8:01:23 AM PST by Pyro7480
If that is not your intention then I sincerely apologize.
However, you posting the same story again that you already posted yesterday written 100 years ago by a philosopher who disparages the Orthodox church made me think you were.
Never mind that it is exactly this "insufficiency of our traditional ideal" which is bringing the rest of Christianity to our doorstep looking for a more traditional church.
Never mind that the churches who went looking for and found a "more complete" conception of Christianity (what an oxymoron) are exactly the ones desperately ill from the pollution of the world they were not strong enough to either change or overcome, as they rushed out in their arrogance and zeal to be a role model.
Translates to "submit to the pope and the superiority of his church, you stubborn eastern Christians". LOL.
Pyro this reminds me of that excellent RC cartoon I saw on one of the Schiavo threads a short time ago. The robots or whatever they are were saying something like "Why do you resist us? We only want to make your life better."
If anyone has seen this cartoon, I hope they can post it. I loved it.
Allow me to introduce you to a favorite Russian theologian of mine.
"Wherefore it must be understood that Creeds and prayers and works are nothing of themselves, but are only an external manifestation of the inward spirit. Whereupon it also follows that neither he who prays nor he who does works nor he who confesses the Creed of the Church is pleasing to God, but only he who acts, confesses, and prays according to the spirit of Christ living within him."
"THE CHURCH, even upon earth, lives, not an earthly human life, but a life of grace which is divine.....Never is she either disfigured or in need of reformation.
"He who does not gather with Me scatters" (Luke 11:23) Recall that to do a good deed, one must be sure of one's intent beforehand.
"cursed is he who does the work of God negligently" (Jer. 48:10)
"Christianity is an ascetic religion, a teaching on gradual liberation from the passions, on the means and conditions of gradual acquisition of virtues, conditions both internal, that is, personal struggle, and external, that is, dogmatic tenets and grace-filled Mysteries, all having one purpose: to heal human sinfulness and lead us to perfection."
What you fail to grasp and apparently what your friend Solo failed to grasp as well, is that no one is alone. While it is difficult for westerners to move beyond the typical "rugged individualist" concept, if you try I think you may be able to see it. Each time we sin we pollute the world around us a tad more. Each time we are virtuous we help the world around us to be a better place.
Each monastery provides to the world, and especially to the church, a tremendously valuable thing - prayer.
When a friend of mine was a catechumen I told her, think of this - every Sunday morning, roughly, millions of Orthodox Christians are praying for you, all over the world.
The liturgy is the work of a people joined together, most importantly in that they seek salvation as a community, not as individuals. No one is alone.
So these ascetics which your Solo friend scorns, are making a far greater contribution than your one friend who stops to help someone, if you can see it. It's like this, which you probably can see - If I come here and post something nasty to you, I am hurting not only myself and you, but all Orthodox Christians and God too. Because each of us is made in the Image of God, we are all linked by this mystical creation.
This is the best explanation I can offer you, from an eastern view to a westerner. On a short amount of sleep, to boot. If I can find something better to explain this concept I will post a link for you.
It is the reason that a famous Russian theologian, said "Save yourself and thousands around you will be saved".
And I believe it is the reason behind a famous Russian proverb - "Don't trust yourself this side of the grave".
As well as this - "Has some good thought come to you? Have you felt some good impulse or inclination in your heart? Stop! Check it with the Gospel."
Blessed Vladyka Ignatij
Finally the church is not an engine for social change in this world, but for the next. That said, we collect regularly at our parish, about $2000 each month, and give it to someone or some place. Last summer, a friend of mine at work lost her son to a freak accident and I took it to our priest. He spoke about it at the next liturgy and a donation of $1600 was handed to me a few weeks later, which I then passed on to the woman's son's family.
Several weeks ago, we collected, on the spur of the moment, just over 2 grand and gave it to an Orthodox family who were down here from Alaska because their daughter is undergoing chemotherapy at Childrens here. Our priest said the father cried when they gave it to him. There is a lovely thank you letter in our current bulletin from these people, with a photo of a very bald young girl.
Our parish has ongoing food and toy collections right now, as we do every year. In our area there is a camp run by two local Greek parishes for children with cancer, which is absolutely free. I am thinking about working at it next year. It is completely staffed by Orthodox volunteers, many of them nurses.
The Orthodox have many very active charitable groups, such as IOCC, treehouse, trinity, among others, and we have the good old OCMC as well.
Our parish also helps to support an Orthodox orphanage in Moscow with about 5 grand each year. We give locally to protestant homes for unwed moms, and occasionally to groups who help the homeless. Since our church is located right in downtown Seattle, each month we give a few hundred out to transients and homeless who knock on the door asking for food or money. Additionally it is not uncommon for homeless to show up at our agape meal after liturgy. I have personally served them on many occasions.
Last but not least, last year sometime a bunch of us Orthodox online sent contributions to a freeper overseas for an orphanage there. I think we made quite a nice dent.
So I hope this helps you to understand us better. And I hope you have a nice Thanksgiving!
In response, I don't think Soloviev is "scorning" asceticism. In fact, asceticism is also a part of the Western tradition. One good book about this in this tradition is Lorenzo Scupoli's "Spiritual Warfare." What he is criticizing is the "asceticism only" approach, and the fracturing between the East and the West. For Christ prayed at the Last Supper that "we may be one." As Fr. Ryland said in his article, all that is required from the Orthodox is a simple "Amen."
The current Pope (to the chagrin of some in Catholic circles) is practically bending over backwards in an attempt to further relations between East and West. It is my opinion, as well as the opinion of the author of the article that I will post in December that the actions of the Pope have lead to unnecessary sacrifices on the account of the "Uniate" Churches. While the goal of reunification is admirable, the Eastern Rite Catholics have been forced to give up too much for the sake of "ecumenism."
Tell the Pope to get busy in Europe.... his RC Church is in BIG trouble. Islam are getting really HUGE in normally RC countries.... even ITALY.
The Pope kissed the koran to the horror of Orthodox Christians worldwide.
When I saw that photo, I just about fainted.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.