Posted on 10/08/2003 1:34:33 PM PDT by Aurelius
I get soooooo tiresd of doing this time and time again. READ THE CONSTITUTION, DAMNIT!!!! Lincoln had no authority to free slaves in states or areas of states that were under the jurisdiction of US Courts. To do that required an Amendment to the Constitution which did not happen until Dec. of 1865. As Commander in Chief, he did have the power, under military order, to free slaves in areas that rejected the authority of US Courts and were in rebellion. Were any slaves suddenly freed on Jan. 1, 1863 when the EP was issued? No. But with each passing day as Union troops advanced, from that point forward until June 19, of 1865 when Union General Granger took control of Texas and read the Emancipapion Proclamation and freed 250,000 Texas slaves, several million slaves were permantly freed under the terms of the EP.
I get so tired of doing this over and over again.
That's the same power President Bush has to free all the slaves on Mars. President Lincoln exercised no real power in areas that were not under Union Army control. What part of "rebellion" do you not understand?
And in a matter of 2 1/2 years from the day the EP was issued, every square inch of rebel territory was under the control of the Union Army, and every slave in that territory was free.
What part of Civil War history is it that don't you understand?
OK, I'll do it.
Shh.
you
Shh.
"get it";
Shh.
I don't
Shh.
think so.
Shh.
And that was a pre-emptive "shh". /Dr. Evil :-)
Depending upon you definition of "control," you might be surpised at the number of square miles that aren't under any effective government control now.
The generally accepted end date of the Civil War was June 19, 1865 when General Gordon Granger landed his troops in Galvaston and the Texas Confederate government ceased to exist. Stand Waitie could have run around longer up in Indian territory for all I know, but he didn't control anything and was pretty much meaningless. Yes, it took some days or weeks for the news to reach outlying districts, but June 19, the day Texas fell, is the date that Texas blacks, to this day, celebrate emancipation from slavery. That emancipation was under the terms of Lincoln's Jan. 1, 1863 executive order.
As the federal government had no authority in the states currently in rebellion no slaves were freed. But as the Union armies marched south and occupied areas of the south, slaves were indeed freed. As this interview was conducted in September of 1864, Unions armies had by this time moved deeply into southern territory and freed numerous slaves.
That would be the idiots who fired on Fort Sumter.
Were any slaves suddenly freed on Jan. 1, 1863 when the EP was issued? No. But with each passing day as Union troops advanced, from that point forward until June 19, of 1865 when Union General Granger took control of Texas and read the Emancipapion Proclamation and freed 250,000 Texas slaves, several million slaves were permantly freed under the terms of the EP.
41 posted on 10/10/2003 8:44 AM PDT by Ditto
So expelling the black population is OK because the south was kind to Native Americans and Jews? Oh wait, there was that little matter of the 'Trail of Tears', wasn't there. Oh well, one out of three ain't bad.
Maybe you need to type slower so that they understand? After all these are the people who insist it wasn't about slavery.
"Just so you know, I have a whole bag of "shh" here with your name on it." -Dr. Evil
Among the reminiscences of Lincoln left by Editor Henry J. Raymond, is the following:
Among the stories told by Lincoln, which is freshest in my mind, one which he related to me shortly after its occurrence, belongs to the history of the famous interview on board the River Queen, at Hampton Roads, between himself and Secretary Seward and the rebel Peace Commissioners. It was reported at the time that the President told a "little story" on that occasion, and the inquiry went around among the newspapers, "What was it?"
The New York Herald published what purported to be a version of it, but the "point" was entirely lost, and it attracted no attention. Being in Washington a few days subsequent to the interview with the Commissioners (my previous sojourn there having terminated about the first of last August), I asked Mr. Lincoln one day if it was true that he told Stephens, Hunter and Campbell a story.
"Why, yes," he replied, manifesting some surprise, "but has it leaked out? I was in hopes nothing would be said about it, lest some over-sensitive people should imagine there was a degree of levity in the intercourse between us." He then went on to relate the circumstances which called it out. "You see," said he, "we had reached and were discussing the slavery question. Mr. Hunter said, substantially, that the slaves, always accustomed to an overseer, and to work upon compulsion, suddenly freed, as they would be if the South should consent to peace on the basis of the 'Emancipation Proclamation,' would precipitate not only themselves, but the entire Southern society, into irremediable ruin. No work would be done, nothing would be cultivated, and both blacks and whites would starve!"
Said the President: "I waited for Seward to answer that argument, but as he was silent, I at length said: 'Mr. Hunter, you ought to know a great deal better about this argument than I, for you have always lived under the slave system. I can only say, in reply to your statement of the case, that it reminds me of a man out in Illinois, by the name of Case, who undertook, a few years ago, to raise a very large herd of hogs. It was a great trouble to feed them, and how to get around this was a puzzle to him. At length he hit on the plan of planting an immense field of potatoes, and, when they were sufficiently grown, he turned the whole herd into the field, and let them have full swing, thus saving not only the labor of feeding the hogs, but also that of digging the potatoes. Charmed with his sagacity, he stood one day leaning against the fence, counting his hogs, when a neighbor came along.
"'Well, well,' said he, 'Mr. Case, this is all very fine. Your hogs are doing very well just now, but you know out here in Illinois the frost comes early, and the ground freezes for a foot deep. Then what you going to do?'
"This was a view of the matter which Mr. Case had not taken into account. Butchering time for hogs was 'way on in December or January! He scratched his head, and at length stammered: 'Well, it may come pretty hard on their snouts, but I don't see but that it will be "root, hog, or die."'" -- (from Lincoln's Yarns and Stories , by Colonel Alexander K. McClure)
Since it is obvious that Mr. Hunter was concerned with the white population dying, what with losing their workforce and all, then it's obvious that Lincoln was telling him that it was the privilaged planter society that would have to 'root, hog, or die' and not the former slaves.
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