Posted on 09/26/2003 3:10:04 PM PDT by mhking
What you have are two Idiot Groups, one exclusively white and one predominantly black, joining forces to become the "heros" of a resistance movement to an unpopular issue.
The Klan and this Nutcase Church are using this issue to try to gain some speck of respectability among the general populace, which quite rightly ostracizes both groups.
If they're all you're relying on to preserve the public display of the Commandments, then kiss them goodbye.
Out of curiosity and because we had had some dealings with DFCS ourselves, my husband and I attended a number of Tuesday night services at the House of Prayer during the time they were dealing with DFCS.
What we found was a very loving, God-fearing group of people. And the children were just beautiful. Probably the most beautiful and well behaved group of children I've ever seen in my life. And I'm a mother of six children, so I've been around a lot of children.
All of Pastor Allen's church services are opened to the public. All DFCS had to do was send someone to one of the services and observe the congregation and the children up close. But no, DFCS took 50 children, who showed no sign of abuse, from their parents.
BTW, the head of Fulton Co. (Atlanta) DFCS was fired last week for incompentency.
Thanks for the update... hopefully they will get someone with a little more sense now..
Many children are abused under DFCS supervision, some children even die.
Why people put so much trust in DFCS is beyond me.
It would make a nice ad, wouldn't it?
"Christians arise! It's time to join the white supremists and child-beaters! The Commandments must stay! Join us for our Cross-burning Rally on the Courthouse Square, followed by a soulfood picnic on the grounds! Show your support!"
BTW.. have you ever been to a Colored Church's picnic/fundraiser? I have, and you have never had a better lunch in your life. Never miss one if you have the oppertunity cause it is finger lickin good and I have never been mistreated in any mannner based on my skin color. You might learn a thing or two.
I've got a little different insight into DFACS than most; my wife is a director on the county level with Fulton County DFACS (she runs the downtown Atlanta office). There are plenty of "problem children" within the organization. But there are plenty of good people within as well.
Unfortunately, the "problem children" are the ones that we hear about in the news. Several of these more problematic types (more specifically in the DeKalb County case that has been in the news heavily) were ultimately the cause of Juanita Blout-Clarke's dismissal.
I've got inside knowledge of the House of Prayer case, some of which I am not at liberty to discuss, and I can safely say that the reality of the case is not as insidiuos as the House of Prayer members make it out to be on the part of DFACS, and one the other hand not as mean-intentioned as the government makes it out to be either.
The bottom line is that Reverend Allen crossed the line between discipline (which is ultimately what the HOP members were seeking with their youth) and abuse (which is what took place). The judge said point blank that parental discipline with a belt was not out of line. The problem in this case was on the part of the public method and manner of the discipline on the part of the members of the HOP.
Allen is in jail because he refused to follow the directives of the court, which he had initially agreed to follow.
It's difficult to feel sorry for Allen and the other members. They created this monster themselves. They had (and continue to have) the power to alleviate the situation - and can do so without compromising their faith.
DeMar respond's to World Puff Piece
Nothing Radical Here
Alabama State Attorney General William Pryor wonders whether Christians have fully thought through what he describes as a "radical states-rights stance." There's nothing radical about it. Pryor claims that if "the nonestablishment clause cannot be enforced on the states, then neither can other clauses in the First Amendment, including guarantees of free religious exercise or free speech." Exactly! If the states wanted these protections for themselves, they would have to write them into their own constitutions, which they did. In Alabama's 1819 constitution, we find the following: "Every citizen may freely speak, write, and publish his sentiments on all subjects, being responsible for the abuse of that liberty" (I:8) Sections 3-7 deal with state religious freedoms. These examples, which could be multiplied state by state, show that the states understood that the Bill of Rights was their constitutional protection from a Federal government that might impose its will on them. Mr. Pryor does not seem to be aware of his own state's constitutional history. Without violating his oath, in complete compliance with constitutional theory, and maintaining the rule of law, he could have rejected the jurisdictional usurpation of the federal courts.
Gary DeMar
David Barton Opposes the Civic illiteracy of Those Christians Who Claim Moore Is Not Following the Rule of Law
After the enormously disappointing behavior of World Magazine, Richard Land and others, who continue to communicate a fundamental misunderstanding of the legal issues in the case of Judge Moore, I was blessed to see that David Barton has issued an article in which points out the civic illiteracy of those who falsely accuse the Chief Justice of disregarding the rule of law. The following is a brief excerpt:
"Interestingly, voices of condemnation against Judge Moore have been raised around the nation, alleging that he refuses to follow 'the rule of law.' Such claims constitute some of the more civically-illiterate statements made in recent years. Consider: in every student civics or government book in America is a page on 'How a Bill Becomes a Law.' Anyone who examines those pages will notice that the judiciary has no role in making law; laws come from bills passed by the legislature and signed by the president or governor. Since no such law has been passed in this case, what 'rule of law' is Judge Moore not upholding? Can it actually be that these critics talking about 'the rule of law' believe that an order by a single unelected federal judge is actually the equivalent of a law? Apparently so. Don't misunderstand: this is not to suggest that judicial rulings should be ignored based on the personal predilections of an individual in a case; however, this ruling goes against every deeply embedded legal standard in America's common law, and Judge Moore's refusal is not based solely on his selfish or personal inclinations.
(To learn how deeply the Ten Commandments have been implanted into American law and traditions, read our legal brief on this issue that has been filed on this issue. Go to http://www.wallbuilders.com and click on the link for the Ten Commandments Brief, located on the front page.)
"Following Judge Myron Thompson's edict, the other eight justices on the Alabama Supreme Court announced their unanimous opposition to Judge Moore's position and agreed to cooperate in the removal of the monument. Judge Moore was subsequently suspended from his judgeship by the Alabama Judicial Inquiry Commission for his refusal to comply with the federal judge's order. Importantly, Judge Moore is elected (as are the other eight State Supreme Court judges) and therefore ultimately accounts directly to the people of Alabama, who can have the final say on this issue. When that time comes, the decision of the voters likely will not agree with the State's other Supreme Court judges or the State's Judicial Inquiry Commission. Moore was already well-known for his stand for the Ten Commandments before he was elected to the Supreme Court (he had already won three legal decisions on the Ten Commandments at the time of his election) and recent polls show that 77 percent of the State supports the display."
Wonderful Letter from Sandy Rios of Concerned Women for America
Over the last week, the two most mocking voices to emerge in opposition to the Chief Justice came not from the Left, but from two professing Christians: John Whitehead and reporter Cal Thomas. (I intend to address the issue of Mr. Whitehead in a future blog.) Especially sad has been the commentary of Cal Thomas whose news column and television broadcast has reached all-time lows in misguided name calling. On his television broadcast, Mr. Thomas accused the Chief Justice of breaking his oath for not following the federal judges edict, accused the protestors gathered in front of the Supreme Court building of theatrics, and worse.
In response to Mr. Thomas' out and out ridicule of the Chief Justice, many Christians are questioning whether the television host has lost perspective. The following is an heartfelt letter from Sandy Rios, President of Concerned Women for America to Mr. Thomas:
Dear Cal,
I was dismayed by your editorial this morning in the Washington Times. I addressed it, respectfully, this morning on radio. I was especially offended by your reference to the gathering in Alabama as "street theater." I assure you that it was not. It was a real outpouring of God's spirit.
I had the privilege of going to Montgomery this past weekend. People were huddled everywhere, praying and singing. Some had come day after day, volunteering their time to set up food tents and feed everyone...many donated food..restaurants like Outback, Ruby Tuesday's and local establishments brought food and water hour after hour. There are always strange people who show up at such events, but there were very few of those.. mostly families who had driven from all over the country. At least 60% of the crowd of about 1200 I spoke to on Saturday, were from all over the country...Seattle, New England, Indiana, Illinois, Kansas, Florida, Georgia, etc.
If you have ever been in a place where God's spirit was present and you didn't want to leave, this was it. I experienced some of that as a teenager in my church...an outpouring of the Holy Spirit..a supernatural presence, magnetic, powerful.
A young attorney who had been a staffer for Justice Moore gave his testimony. He resigned his position with the court to join the defense team. He told us that the lead attorney for the Southern Poverty Law Center, a young woman, had attended the rally a few nights before. He said that he saw her in the crowd and approached her. She had none of the hardness she had displayed in their courtroom battles, but instead was quiet. Her mother had died just a short time before and she had come to listen. He shared Christ with her to some degree and asked us to pray for her.
You accused those of us who went, of using this as a fundraising tool. Cal, have you been here [in Washington] so long that you cannot believe that some of us actually believe in what we are doing? There is nothing phony about this movement. It transcends any man's actions, but was brought about by Justice Moore, who is a man of God. If you spoke with him, you would be struck by both his humility and his strength. He and we may not be doing things the way you think they should be done, but surely you don't believe that all of us should just sit back and watch as humanism and secularism sweeps over the nation. Easy to pen words and stay above the fray.
I prefer, whatever the cost, the fray. I won't tackle the issue here that I already know separates us, that of the Christian's role in the public arena. Instead, I am attaching my speech from Saturday night. I don't claim to be eloquent, Cal, just deeply committed. I believe God has called me here and for this time. I hope you have a moment to listen.
For Christ and His Kingdom!
Sandy R.
Sandy Rios
President
Concerned Women for AmericaPat Robertson Interviews the Chief Justice
We are very grateful for Pat Robertson's change of heart on the Ten Commandments issue as demonstrated in this Thursday's CBN interview with the Chief Justice. Please take the time to view the entire broadcast. It is superb, and addresses the issue of why the Chief Justice's actions were not civil disobedient, but an act of law enforcement.
http://www.cbn.com/700club/previousbroadcasts
Once Forced Into the Hitler Youth, This Christian Preacher Weighs In On Justice Moore
Readers recall that two months ago we featured a series of images and articles about Hilmar von Campe, a youthful octegenarian who visited the Phillips home and shared his perspective as a former Hitler Youth turned Christian preacher, about totalitarianism. We were delighted to see his writings on the Focus on the Family website and to learn of Mr. von Campe's friendship with Dr. Dobson. Below is an excerpt from the letter published on the Focus on the Family site:
"...Strangely enough, I cannot find any clause in the Constitution that stipulates a separation of church and state; the First Amendment certainly cannot be interpreted this way unless one does not mind lies. But the concept reminds me of the Nazi years in Germany, where I grew up.
In school and in the Hitler Youth — which I was forced to enter like any other youth — we were told that we could pray and sing hymns in our homes and in church as much as we liked. But as far as society was concerned, the national Socialists (i.e., Nazis) let it be known that they decided and declared what was right and what was wrong.
People soon learned that you turned up in a concentration camp if you objected to the Nazi version of what was right. On Sunday mornings, Gestapo agents stood in front of our church to intimidate those who entered. Nazis spoke of separation of church and state, but they meant separation of God and society so that they could twist what was right and have their evil ways. The Ten Commandments were just another obstacle on their road to national and global power.
Everybody knows how it ended. Hitler was unable to achieve what he had promised to do: to eliminate Christianity in Germany once he had won the war. Godlessness was the root of the Nazi evil, and godlessness is at the heart of the attack on Chief Justice Moore.
Judge Moore is upholding not only the U.S. Constitution, but also the Alabama Constitution. His fight is for the American people to honor their roots and be free as a nation and, with God's guidance, provide moral leadership to humanity. Since when can a federal judge force the chief justice of a state of the union to break his oath of office?"
The Prayers of the Righteous Judge In the Face of Persecution
Psalm 119:121-126
I have done judgment and justice: leave me not to mine oppressors. Be surety for thy servant for good: let not the proud oppress me. Mine eyes fail for thy salvation, and for the word of thy righteousness. Deal with thy servant according unto thy mercy, and teach me thy statutes. I am thy servant; give me understanding, that I may know thy testimonies. It is time for thee, LORD, to work: for they have made void thy law.Psalm 119: 161-165
Princes have persecuted me without a cause: but my heart standeth in awe of thy word. I rejoice at thy word, as one that findeth great spoil. I hate and abhor lying: but thy law do I love. Seven times a day do I praise thee because of thy righteous judgments. Great peace have they which love thy law: and nothing shall offend them.
The Chief Justice vs. Paula Zahn
The following are exerpts from last night's interview of the Chief Justice by Paula Zahn:
ZAHN: And how outraged were when you found out that that was the ruling you were going to have to live by?
MOORE: Well, I was extremely disappointed, disappointed in the officials of our state who have let this happen, disappointed that they would let a judge threaten the state of Alabama to remove acknowledgement of God, which is fundamental to our state and our justice system under the Constitution of Alabama.
Without acknowledgement of God, we have no justice system, according to the Constitution. And that, I'm sworn to uphold.
ZAHN: Your own attorney general suggested that perhaps you view yourself as above the law.
MOORE: Well, you've got to consider what the law is. And that's the problem. Many people think that what a judge says is law. Indeed, judges can't make the law. Judges, just like anybody else, are under the law. That's why we have rule of law. That law is the Constitution of the United States. And the Constitution of the United States is very clear in saying that Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion.
When a judge, a federal district judge, says, I don't know what the words mean, but this is what I think they mean, he's entering into a lawless order when he enters the fact that you can't acknowledge God in your Constitution. And that's what happened. I'm not defying the law. I'm upholding the law.
ZAHN: Well, you also have some 13 other states out there facing potential conflicts that you have just witnessed. Do you have any travel plans?
MOORE: Well, I'm traveling around speaking on this issue because there's so many that don't understand it.
They don't understand what the Constitution says, what the First Amendment's about. What the Alabama Constitution says is very clear. And I think there's too many things going on in this country about the removal of God from our life. And it's fundamental. Actually, the organic law of our country establishes God as the basis for our justice system.
ZAHN: But when your own attorney general, who personally has no problem with the display of the Ten Commandments, comes out and says that you defied a federal court order, that you are not above the law, and that you should have followed through with what the federal court told you to do--
MOORE: Again, the attorney general is under the law, just like I am. And when that law is being violated, when it's an unlawful order -- and I just was brought this information about Morris Dees [of] the Southern Poverty Law Center, who is in the case against us.
This is what he said in The Washington Post about our attorney general and his actions: "The heat of this battle certainly matured this young man," Dees said of [Bill] Pryor. "His actions behind the scenes to orchestrate the state officials handling these things saved Alabama from constitutional crisis."
Now, it bothers me that there's things going on behind the scenes to orchestrate the denial of our right to acknowledge God under the Constitution. That bothers me.
Bush Administration on Roy Moore
“Asked about President Bush's view of the controversy, White House spokeswoman Claire Buchan said: ‘It is important that we respect our laws and our courts. In some instances, the courts have ruled that the posting of the Ten Commandments is OK. In other circumstances, they have ruled that it's not OK. In either case, there is always opportunity for appeal of courts’ decisions.’”
Source: Kyle Winfield, Associated Press, Washington Times.com, 8/28/03
Doug's Blog Stirs Alabama Supreme Court
In a world in which blogs (web logs) are growing in influence, we found it most interesting that our own little blog has reached the Alabama Supreme Court building. Over the last month we have received a spate of letters from attorneys working for Justice Gorman Houston and others who have expressed their disapproval with our criticism of the actions of Alabama judicial officials against the Chief Justice.
A common denominator in their letters is that the authors are professing Christians who love the Judge, but appear to be more concerned with the reputations of the lawless men who have bowed to compromise and pressure than to the one man who has stood on the Lord's side and refused to violate his oath. I believe their consciences are pricked, and the best way to live with compromise is to condemn those who say the emperor has no clothes.
Link to VisionForum: HERE.
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