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An Analysis of Arnold Schwarzenegger's Environmental Policy
Arnold Schwarzenegger's Website / Vanity | Sept. 23, 2003 | Mark Edward Vande Pol, aka, Carry_Okie

Posted on 09/23/2003 1:59:55 PM PDT by Carry_Okie

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To: JCEccles
Look, forgive the caps, but ... could you LOOK at my first post, THINK about my point, and then think about your question again?

Dan
61 posted on 09/23/2003 3:39:07 PM PDT by BibChr ("...behold, they have rejected the word of the LORD, so what wisdom is in them?" [Jer. 8:9])
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To: Carry_Okie
Your One Stop Resource For All The California Recall News!

Want on our daily or major news ping lists? Freepmail DoctorZin

62 posted on 09/23/2003 3:40:41 PM PDT by DoctorZIn
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To: My2Cents
"Our efforts to improve air quality in Caifornia are a huge success."

But when will the press/media ever even acknowledge that? I'll tell you when... when Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton agree and publically state that America has been forgiven for it's racism due to slavery in the past!!!

The next step is parts per trillion, then per quadrillion, or maybe never, right? The self-perpetuating self-annointed messiahs of civil rights and the environment are one and the same. That's why we're now headed for "Environmental Justice" so that "Earth Justice" lawyers for the Sierra Flub can increase in wealth and power over our lives!!!

63 posted on 09/23/2003 3:44:23 PM PDT by SierraWasp (Forget Party Politics... Re-register "decline to state" and become truly Independent!!!)
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To: My2Cents
You don't have it quite right. Only two air basins in California required the addition of oxygenates into gasoline. The required fraction was (IIRC) 8%. CARB, under Pete Wilson, mandated 15% statewide. There was no EPA requirement for California to use that much MTBE.

The "level playing field" idea isn't. It doesn't account for climatic distinctions between sites or the relative risks to surrounding populations. It is however advantageous to larger concerns simply because of economies of scale in the cost of compliance.

Another crooked scam is playing games with the attainment specs to give an advantage to a single player. An example is when Carol Browner set the particulate reduction specs for new diesel at 94% when the industry stated that it could only comply with 90%. You can bet that someone had a proprietary process that met the marginally higher number and made a killing on the resulting shortages of diesel and perhaps royalties on the process.

A flexible system is actually more just and motivates more consideration of individual plant location attributes. That's where pricing emissions has big advantages in flexibility.

The problem with that idea is that it's effectively a tax scam run by the big guys who can buy more influence with the administration. My system works in the opposite fashion, paying those landowners who develop proven processes to adsorb, dilute, or control downstream emissions. It's a long way off but in principle more accurately maps onto the way nature actually mitigates industrial activity.

64 posted on 09/23/2003 3:45:09 PM PDT by Carry_Okie (The environment is too complex and too important to be managed by politics.)
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To: Carry_Okie
You need to hire an editor.
65 posted on 09/23/2003 3:46:59 PM PDT by Ben Ficklin
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To: My2Cents
All-in-all, I've come to view environmental regulations as important and necessary. I remember around 1970, and I compare it with today, and considering the huge increase in mobile sources alone over the last 30 years, we've done an incredible job cleaning the air. Our efforts to improve air quality in Caifornia are a huge success. I know a lot of conservatives belly-ache about environmental regs, but let's face it...nobody wants to return to the muck and haze of 30 years ago, particularly in places like the South Coast District and the south Bay Area.

A lot has changed since then. We have actually crossed the point of diminishing returns and gone negative with the environmental impact of regulatory government on a scale the boggles the mind when you learn about it. The problem is that no one talks about those problems as having been caused by government.

I'll be putting out a short article series soon on conservative principles applied to swing constituency issues, the environment among them. In it I'll have examples of what I mean. Until then, isn't 27 million acres infested with starthistle an environmental problem caused by government? Isn't seven million acres a year combusted in catastrophic fire an environmental problem caused by government? Isn't the fact that an imported pathogen, phytophthora ramorum, threatens to kill seventy percent of all hardwood forests in the West an environmental problem caused by government failure to run its border inspection systems properly?

Nobody talks about those.

Have we put scrubbers on fast-food restraunt vents, or have we outlawed backyard barbeques yet? Years ago, the idea of reducing an emission by a part-per-billion was unheard of. Today, technology allows it. But at what cost? That's the eternal question. However, I have to admit that I consider myself an environmentalist...I don't think I'm a "wacko" however.

Well I used to be where you are, until I learned a great deal more about how the system works. The book explains a lot about that.

All in all, your analysis is sound. And I daresay, your knowledge of the issues outstrips my own. Arnold's platform on the environment is pretty mainstream -- neither that revolutionary, nor questioning of questionable existing policies. Let's face it -- it was probably written by a former Wilson official at CalEPA.

Actually, it's not mainstream except among regulators. If the public understood where this stuff goes or the environmental consequences of the policy, they would be up in arms.

66 posted on 09/23/2003 3:55:36 PM PDT by Carry_Okie (The environment is too complex and too important to be managed by politics.)
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To: Ben Ficklin
LOL! It's not my fault! That's how long the beastie was.
67 posted on 09/23/2003 3:56:32 PM PDT by Carry_Okie (The environment is too complex and too important to be managed by politics.)
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To: Ben Ficklin
"You need to hire an editor."

I know you didn't address that to me, but IMO he does pretty good at simply taking a HUGE and far reaching "plan" by an uncandid candidate and answering each phrase and line or concept with precise and accurate refutation that is actually understandable to most people. There... I need an editor as that sentence was WAY too long!!!

68 posted on 09/23/2003 4:04:20 PM PDT by SierraWasp (Forget Party Politics... Re-register "decline to state" and become truly Independent!!!)
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To: Carry_Okie
Since this whole deal about TM and AS has become the most boring thing on FR/internet/media, anything you might chose to write on the subject would also be. Its not your fault!
69 posted on 09/23/2003 4:05:19 PM PDT by Ben Ficklin
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To: Carry_Okie
Only two air basins in California required the addition of oxygenates into gasoline.

You're right. I'd forgotten about that. Like I said, it's been a few years.

The "level playing field" idea isn't.

You're right, but I'm referring to stationary source controls enacted by the individual air districts. Clearly, what's required for a stationary source in LA isn't going to be the same (necessarily) in Contra Costa County, or Bakersfield. I meant that the rules adopted for a region (the BAAQMD, for example) should be applied equally and fairly to similar sources permitted within the district.

A flexible system is actually more just and motivates more consideration of individual plant location attributes. That's where pricing emissions has big advantages in flexibility.

Emission credits is actually a great "market solution" to difficult air quality standards. I think they were originated in the South Coast District. Again, conservatives pooh-pooh emission credits (e.g., I hear Melanie Morgan on KSFO ranking in her ignorance on emissions credits, and I want to ring her neck) but it really gives a break to those businesses which simply can't reach their permitted levels, and is an economic advantage to those who do better than their permitted allowance. (Although I see your point about potential abuse in favoring the entity that can afford aggressive controls, and can then recoup much of their expenditure from the little guy who can't; but the concept is still a good one, IMO.)

The problem with that idea is that it's effectively a tax scam run by the big guys who can buy more influence with the administration. My system works in the opposite fashion, paying those landowners who develop proven processes to adsorb, dilute, or control downstream emissions.

Worth considering. Is this applicable to sources of air emissions?

70 posted on 09/23/2003 4:11:28 PM PDT by My2Cents (Well...there you go again.)
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To: My2Cents
Worth considering. Is this applicable to sources of air emissions?

Yes, but it's down the road a good ways. Even better, it leads to patenting land management processes as property in a manner similar to a mining claim.

71 posted on 09/23/2003 4:15:30 PM PDT by Carry_Okie (The environment is too complex and too important to be managed by politics.)
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To: BibChr
Well personally I think you are so wrong. I have known Carry for along time, and I know that he tries to make the case that "of course we all love our environment, but the landowners, especially the smaller ones, are the best stewards"! There are those in corporate America that could give a hoot! Take, take and just take.

However, I will say this for myself! I don't need any further regulations, don't want them and will do all I can to stop them!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Why? Because my land is under attack, and I am not, nor will I ever be a willing seller for any idea of scenic value or for that dang matter, my natural gas!

You do yourself a grave disservice by not understanding Carry_Okie.......
72 posted on 09/23/2003 4:19:15 PM PDT by countrydummy
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To: Carry_Okie; AAABEST; Ace2U; Alamo-Girl; Alas; amom; AndreaZingg; Anonymous2; ApesForEvolution; ...
Breaking my posting strike for this very important thread by Carry_Okie.
73 posted on 09/23/2003 4:28:47 PM PDT by farmfriend ( Isaiah 55:10,11)
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To: farmfriend
Thanks, ff. You've been missed.
74 posted on 09/23/2003 4:33:47 PM PDT by Carry_Okie (The environment is too complex and too important to be managed by politics.)
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To: farmfriend
"posting strike"

For me, that would be akin to a "hunger strike!" Mrs. Wasp says I need to go on a hunger strike or pretty soon I'ma gonna be too fat to fly!!!

She keeps tellin me that FReepin promotes too many fatasses, but who listens?

75 posted on 09/23/2003 4:44:51 PM PDT by SierraWasp (Forget Party Politics... Re-register "decline to state" and become truly Independent!!!)
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To: farmfriend
hahhaha, and I was looking for you!
76 posted on 09/23/2003 4:57:27 PM PDT by countrydummy
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To: farmfriend; Carry_Okie
Carry,

It is not suprising that Arnold has some half-baked ideas in a subject you care deeply about. That is somewhat expected in a political neophyte. However, just because George Bush has some ideas that I think are very wrong (open borders) doesn't mean I won't vote for him next year. I still plan to Vote for Arnold, and I still think that Tom is doing himself and the Republican party no favors in this prideful suicide mission of his.

You still have not differentiated his ideas from Cruz Bustamonte's. Are they better, or worse? Please advise.

Nathan
77 posted on 09/23/2003 4:59:32 PM PDT by NathanR (California Si! Aztlan NO!)
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To: SierraWasp
hahahaha, I feel the way you do! Carry does not need an editor! We do! hahhahahahha
78 posted on 09/23/2003 5:02:51 PM PDT by countrydummy
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To: NathanR
Well we differ for a lot of reasons that IMO are off topic here. Between the two, what they SAY will of course sound different, but I don't think Arnold's environmental ideas are that far from what you would get from Cruz Bustamante. In fact, I would bet that in both cases the composition of every regulatory board in the state would be virtually identical. You can take that however you would like, but it is an informed opinion based upon what I hear from people who work at a high level inside these agencies. That's all I can say on that topic right now.
79 posted on 09/23/2003 5:08:51 PM PDT by Carry_Okie (The environment is too complex and too important to be managed by politics.)
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To: countrydummy
So you'd say mostly Carry's been really positive about supporting Schwarzenegger, posting a lot of glowing support for his many positive statements, making sure we elect him and get rid of Democrat tyranny?

Dan
80 posted on 09/23/2003 5:22:15 PM PDT by BibChr ("...behold, they have rejected the word of the LORD, so what wisdom is in them?" [Jer. 8:9])
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