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Too thin a line between life, death for Schiavo
Saint Petersburg Times ^ | September 15, 2003 | HOWARD TROXLER

Posted on 09/17/2003 1:06:32 PM PDT by MarMema

There is a point that gets somewhat blurred in this long-running debate over whether to pull the plug on the life of the brain-damaged Terri Schiavo.

The point is, there isn't a plug to pull. At least, there isn't a plug in the sense that the term is usually used.

She is not hooked up to some machine that is breathing for her or pumping her blood. She is not in a coma, clinging to life.

Terri Schiavo lies in a bed while her 39-year-old body works pretty much like everybody else's. Her body functions under its own power. She wakes up in the morning. She goes to sleep at night.

She is not being kept alive with "extraordinary measures," except for one thing:

She is being fed through a tube.

So the decision to end her life is not as simple as flipping a switch, and having her body fail a few minutes later.

Instead, it is a matter of withholding nourishment and liquid from a body that otherwise might go on.

Maybe you still say:

"Well, that is okay with me. I wouldn't want to live life as a vegetable, and from what I hear about this case, she didn't want to live that way either."

And, you know, that is a defensible opinion.

All I'm saying is that there is a subtle difference of degree here. It seems to me that ending her life requires taking an active, extra step, not just "letting her go."

That may not be how the law sees it, though.

I talked to both sides in the case. George Felos is the lawyer for Michael Schiavo, Terri's husband and legal guardian, who seeks to remove the tube. Michael has fought in court for years against Terri's parents, who want to keep her alive, holding out hope that she might one day improve, if only slightly.

Felos told me that the feeding tube is precisely the kind of artificial measure - "being hooked up to a tube," as people often put it - that Terri told her husband she never wanted.

The tube, in short, is a form of medical treatment. People in Florida have the right under the Constitution and state statutes to refuse medical treatment, Felos told me.

I asked him - using a harsh example - what difference exists between removing the tube, and just putting a pillow over her face.

The first instance, he replied, is a Florida citizen exercising the right to refuse medical care, letting "nature take its course." The second is murder, or even if done at the patient's own wishes, still an illegally assisted suicide.

I also talked to Pat Anderson, the lawyer for Robert and Mary Schindler, Terri's parents. Anderson said there is a difference between a person expressing the desire not to live "hooked up to machines" and saying, "Be sure not to feed me. Be sure not to do anything to see that I get better."

Anderson and the Schindlers still hold out hope that Terri might be able to take nourishment orally, despite past findings that she is incapable. They draw a difference between removing the feeding tube and starving her: "Did she also say, no spoons for me?" Anderson asked.

I was surprised to see how specific Florida law is on these points. Chapter 765 of the Florida Statutes is careful to include "artificially provided sustenance and hydration" in the list of things that are considered to be "life-prolonging procedures" that may be declined.

The law goes on to state explicitly:

The withholding or withdrawal of life-prolonging procedures from a patient in accordance with any provision of this chapter does not, for any purpose, constitute a suicide.

I take no stand on the conflicting claims of the Schindlers and Michael Schiavo over Terri's mental capacity, nor on their various allegations of misconduct against each other.

In fact, it is helpful to think about the case in the light least favorable to each side.

Even if the Schindlers are wrong, and her body will be nothing but an empty shell forever, does that justify starving her to death? Or if Michael is wrong, and she adapts to taking nourishment orally, should we magically be barred from considering her past wishes about the kind of life she did not want?

If a spoon vs. a tube is the entire difference between life or death, it is too fine a distinction. I would not be able to let her die on that basis.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Editorial; Extended News; Government; News/Current Events; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: euthanasia; schiavo

1 posted on 09/17/2003 1:06:33 PM PDT by MarMema
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To: MarMema
At last! media telling the truth, she is not in a coma, clinging to life.
2 posted on 09/17/2003 1:11:24 PM PDT by lakey
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To: Salvation; kimmie7; freeparoundtheclock; agrace; katnip; Deo volente; trustandobey; Theodore R.; ...
A quick ping, Kimmie please add when you can.

We can now email Howard and let him know that we appreciate his looking into this issue and making the ethical choice, then stating it. I did.

please forgive me if I missed anyone in this ping.

3 posted on 09/17/2003 1:14:07 PM PDT by MarMema (KILLING ISN'T MEDICINE)
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To: lakey
Chapter 765 of the Florida Statutes is careful to include "artificially provided sustenance and hydration" in the list of things that are considered to be "life-prolonging procedures" that may be declined.

It really is a death state. Illinois, as we know, is careful to include not allowing dehydration or starvation as a cause of death. All concerned Florida residents should move to Illinois. Heck with the beaches.

4 posted on 09/17/2003 1:17:38 PM PDT by MarMema (KILLING ISN'T MEDICINE)
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To: All
Vote NO here if you agree that Terri deserves to be nourished and that food and fluid are not forms of medical treatment.
5 posted on 09/17/2003 1:23:04 PM PDT by MarMema (KILLING ISN'T MEDICINE)
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To: MarMema
I am shocked. And pleased. Finally, a major paper notes that Terri is not brain dead or on life support.

Sad part about the specificity of Florida law on including sustenance as an "extraordinary measure". Remind me never to go to Florida, just in case I land in a hospital, especially since I'm disabled.

It's an exceptionally well written article and manages to leave out the baggage of 13 years of litigation. I would like to question the article on one point:

"Anderson and the Schindlers still hold out hope that Terri might be able to take nourishment orally, despite past findings that she is incapable"

When was this test done? She can swallow her own saliva, but everything I've read about this case says a swallowing test has been repeatedly refused.

6 posted on 09/17/2003 1:24:43 PM PDT by cake_crumb (UN Resolutions = Very Expensive, Very SCRATCHY Toilet Paper)
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To: cake_crumb
Correction: "Sad part about the specificity of Florida law on including sustenance as a 'life-prolonging procedure'."

That is a frightening concept. I'm thinking of my husband, who spent 8 months in 1978-79 in a coma after a motorcycle accident. IV's could be considered "artificially provided sustenance and hydration" and therefore illegal for someone else in a similar situation.

7 posted on 09/17/2003 1:30:38 PM PDT by cake_crumb (UN Resolutions = Very Expensive, Very SCRATCHY Toilet Paper)
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To: MarMema
+To God be the Glory ... I've added by e-thanks to the writer ...
8 posted on 09/17/2003 1:30:46 PM PDT by Pegita ('Tis so sweet to trust in Jesus, just to take Him at His Word ...)
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To: MarMema
I just e-mailed him also. Nice article! Thanks for posting it as a thread. Maybe we'll get new exposure for Terri.
9 posted on 09/17/2003 1:40:07 PM PDT by Ohioan from Florida
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To: MarMema
A feeding tube is not an extraordinary measure.

This case illustrates that you have to be very careful, if you go into a hospital, to have a clear understanding of what it means to sign a "living will" or similar document. Your best bet is to have someone you trust looking out for you--preferably not a spouse eager to collect on the life insurance policy.
10 posted on 09/17/2003 2:12:05 PM PDT by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: Pegita
So sad and scary that cruelty has become institutionalized. Waiting for the ACLU to chime in, as always on the wrong side of decency.
11 posted on 09/17/2003 2:13:56 PM PDT by fatidic
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To: cake_crumb
This case has done a LOT of good informing many people about what constitutes "life support".

Since I've been reading all this, my husband and I have discussed what we would do if one or the other were to become so incapacitated. I had already decided that I would want to exhaust every avenue for rehab for myself or him.

His opinion:

"ALWAYS err on the side of life."

I married a wise man :-)
12 posted on 09/17/2003 2:40:08 PM PDT by Marie Antoinette (Yes, those little cigar choppers make me *extremely* nervous!)
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To: Marie Antoinette
"I married a wise man :-)"

Yes you did. You know...maybe this is where we're going wrong in Terri's defense. Any of us could be in Terri's predicament right now. Besides educating us on the pitfalls of living wills, Mike Chiavo's attitude toward his wife makes us appreciate the good one's we're blessed with all the more.

13 posted on 09/17/2003 2:48:35 PM PDT by cake_crumb (UN Resolutions = Very Expensive, Very SCRATCHY Toilet Paper)
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To: cake_crumb
bttt. Howard T. is a columnist not a reporter but I appreciate any liberals who want to help Terri.
14 posted on 09/18/2003 1:52:38 PM PDT by floriduh voter (http://www.conservative-spirit.org/)
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To: floriduh voter; MarMema
A fine column. I think it will reach Gov. Bush's desk. Thank you, MM. Thank you, FV, for spreading the word.
15 posted on 09/18/2003 4:55:35 PM PDT by Ragtime Cowgirl ("Don't they care about the Iraqi people..at all?"~Sama in Iraq re. those pushing US to leave, 9/17)
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To: MarMema
Jeb reads the St. Pete Times. It's a good paper except for the liberal slant. Look out in campaign season. The President-republican will be on page 8 and the democrats will be on the front page. It happens every time.
16 posted on 09/18/2003 5:29:04 PM PDT by floriduh voter (http://www.conservative-spirit.org/)
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To: lakey; kimmie7; pc93; dixiegrrl; trustandobey; Ragtime Cowgirl; windchime; cake_crumb; MarMema
Bill O' Reilly on now with hubby's attorney and Terri's attorney. FOX NEWS CHANNEL. SCHIAVO ON NOW!!!!! BREAKING NOW. O' REILLY DOING SCHIAVO STORY.....
17 posted on 09/18/2003 5:30:33 PM PDT by floriduh voter (http://www.conservative-spirit.org/)
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To: Marie Antoinette
"His opinion: "ALWAYS err on the side of life."

It has been reported that she had engaged in a similar discussion and said something to the effect that she didn't want to be kept alive on tubes. If true, I respect the personal desicions that both of you have made.

18 posted on 09/18/2003 5:37:49 PM PDT by gorush
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To: gorush
It has been reported that she had engaged in a similar discussion and said something to the effect that she didn't want to be kept alive on tubes. If true, I respect the personal desicions that both of you have made.

The husband claims that they had such a discussion. Based on the other things I've read about the case, though, I find that claim suspect. After all, the husband has indicated by his actions that he does not want his wife to get better. If he divorces her, then he will no longer be able to prevent her parents from getting her therapy. If, as a result of therapy, she is able to become fully mentally competant, she will be able to sue the husband and his lawyer for all the money they will ever own, and have no trouble finding a jury to go along with it.

19 posted on 09/18/2003 6:25:14 PM PDT by supercat (TAG--you're it!)
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To: floriduh voter
My previous post didn't go through that I saw a part of O'Reilly's Anderson/Felos interview. Will tape all of it on the re-play in half an hour.

O'Reilly's comment that he'll keep a watch on this case was really good news!

20 posted on 09/18/2003 7:28:46 PM PDT by lakey
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