The War Party's Enablers: all of us

SF Chroncile | 14 Spet. '03 | Robert Higgs

[u-89]

Oh I see your point now, since other countries interfere with their neighbors we should too. Since Britain, France, Germany and a host of other formally great nations bled themselves white with their foolish policies we should follow their examples. Sorry but my "pointy head", as you say, doesn't see how increased taxes, shedding blood and making enemies secures our life, liberty and property. Perhaps constantly finding our "national interest" lies overseas far beyond our borders causes some resentments. Funny but I don't hear much about these resentments and terrorism directed at valuable trading partners, only outside interference. Sounds like a cause and effect.

[u-89]

What are you saying? Since the world was settled by war and conquest we should keep it up? That Manifest Destiny should continue across the globe? That the world will only know peace after it is subdued and ruled by the US? That's what it sounds like.

>Machiavelli said that war cannot be avoided

There is a big difference between European and Asian nations known to Machiavelli and us. That difference is a land surrounded by two vast oceans, east and west and two week countries, north and south. We are most fortunate and unique in our circumstances. Please note that all of our 20th century wars came once we went out in the world to be a great power in the European mode and project force.

[Mears]

u-89,you are a very well informed, condescending, ass!

[tet68]

Terrorism is the result of political problems. They can not be solved with the military.

Tut, tut, read your Clausewitz.

[tet68]

I don't trust ANYONE that uses the word bellicosity.

Or "jingo"/"jingoism"...

Or wears a "Bow tie".

[ShadowDancer]

I don't trust ANYONE that uses the word bellicosity.

And I don't trust anyone that can't properly use or identify the word bellicosity. I find them to be a bit belligerent.

[u-89]

Clinton's foreign policy by my standards is particularly dastardly. Sending missiles off just to get Monica off the front pages is pretty wicked. There was nothing right about Kosovo at all. Sitting back and doing nothing after two embassies got blown up is the epitome of foolish, cowardly and selfish behavior. The man was only concerned with his poll numbers and a messy war would not help his political viability.

As far as Korea goes one could blame Clinton to a point. We have been at war with that country since 1950 - there has never been an official peace. We are stationed right on their border and feel obligated to protect the region. The Koreans use our value of life and our commitments against us. They extorted money from Clinton. Granted they can not be trusted like Carter thought we could do at the time but I don't believe Clinton ever trusted them. He just bought enough time so any blow up would happen on someone else's watch. The China bit was part of a long term bipartisan strategy to build up that nation. I believe the "spying" was official technology transfers carried out by backdoor means but that is beyond the scope of this debate.

You mention the muslims coming over here to attack us and I ask you why would they do that. Because they hate our freedoms and democracy as the president claims? Please. Like they care how we live half way around the world. They stated the reasons themselves if we care to listen. The problem is we are over there, actively over there. Buying oil from them was not on their list of grievances so that rules out peacefull commerse as leading to this war.

[Excuse_My_Bellicosity]

Excerpt: many Americans take pleasure in "kicking ass," and they do not much care whose ass is being kicked or why.

This article is full of crap right from the first sentence above. They act like people for the war are taking pleasure in beating up little old ladies in the streets. These vermin are our country's sworn enemies, period.

[u-89]

That you. That is far better than being a dumb ass.

[u-89]

that last post should read "thank you" not "that" you. Sorry.

[.cnI redruM]

>>>Oh I see your point now, since other countries interfere with their neighbors we should too

1) Retaliating against a nation that hosts, equips and arms a band of religious fanatics that blow up 3,000 of your neighbors is not interfereing with your neighbors w/o just cause.

2) Destroying the government of a nation that sends assassination teams into your country to kill one your country's foreign leaders, routinely ignores its obligations under a treaty it signed with you, and pays $20,000 bounties to the families of young men and women who strap explosives to themselves to blow up civilians in a country that you are aligned with is not interfering with your neighbors w/o a just cause.

>>>Sorry but my "pointy head", as you say, doesn't see how increased taxes, shedding blood and making enemies secures our life, liberty and property.

Your pointy head is forgiven, because I'm the lovable, humane person that I am. However, the rest of that sentence .....

1) 'increasing taxes' - Sorry, wrong President Bush.

2) 'shedding blood' - In response to 9-11, it was the only logical alternative. Giving Osauma a care package and building lots of day care centers for unloved terrorists just wouldn't have dissuaded Bin Ladin from his scarlet deeds of villany.

3) making enemies - Every country that opposed us on the Iraq invasion was already hard at work subverting the Oil For FOod program. Many had interfered with our diplomatic efforts prior to the UN resolution. France's meddling in our negotiations w/ Middle Eastern and African COuntries had continued unabaited since the DeGualle Presidency.

In neither of the cases I've cited above did our recent actions make those enemies. We've just finished them off in some cases and in others merely recognized a pre-existing long-held emnity that predated the current scenario by decades.

>>>>Perhaps constantly finding our "national interest" lies overseas far beyond our borders causes some resentments.

I have no doubt in my heart that Sir Francis Drake burning part of The Spanish Armada while it was anchored near the site of modern day Amsterdam cuased the Spanish to resent his interference. Standing there like a potted plant while the armada sailed unabaited to the vicinity of Dover would have done nothing to resolve the hostility of Spain towards England.

Pacifism is a great policy to practice towards nations who bear us no ill will. The US should be pacifistic towards countries like Uroguay, Chile and Kenya who are not actively attempting to make the world a worse place for Americans. Turning the other cheek worksbeautifully in most interpersonal relationships. In the international arena, it gets your other cheek torn off with a meat hook.

How's that tin foil hat fitting you?

[Excuse_My_Bellicosity]

The sheer bellicosity of many ordinary people is as undeniable as it is shocking...

Being attacked on American soil has a way of doing that.

The left's indifference to the very future existence of this country is shocking to me. The "do it if it feels good" crowd is living for the moment only. They care nothing about what happens after they're dead. They don't care if their children and grandchildren are living in concentration camps and being buried in mass graves after they're too weak to continue as slave-laborers. They're like the Europeans who will be remembered in history for how easily they were led to the slaughterhouses.

[u-89]

I have, been years though. It all depends on what you mean by solving. Killing every man, woman and child like they did in the old testament is the only sure way of problem solving. Other ways are less grim but exceedingly costly. Whether it is militarily, economically or spiritually in the long run they all are pyrrhic victories.

[tet68]

So you believe.
Suit yourself.
I've got to go clean weapons.

[Mears]

And a sense of humor too,not bad!

[metesky]

All real Americans love to fight!

[.cnI redruM]

Beautiful!

[paul51]

I don't know when people will ever learn. Do not, I repeat DO NOT read the sf chron. I will rot your brain and turn you into a morally bankrupt, American hating and self loathing panty waste.

[jwalsh07]

Terrorism is the result of political problems. They can not be solved with the military. Pursuing war for economic gain, personal advancement or spreading ideology is a crime and a sin.

Sheer lunacy.

That's the best I can offer on what you are selling.

[jwalsh07]

:-}

Good one Metesky!