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Squelched standards hedged on evolution
St Paul Pioneer Press ^ | Sept 10th, 2003 | John Welsh

Posted on 09/11/2003 9:07:44 AM PDT by ThinkPlease

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What's really impressive is that Governor Pawlenty has been crowing about the great Genomic facilities that the University of Minnesota is building in St. Paul, but his Education commissioner appears to be making sure that kids in the state won't ever have the education to use the facilites. Doesn't that sound odd to anyone else?
1 posted on 09/11/2003 9:07:45 AM PDT by ThinkPlease
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To: PatrickHenry
Ping the usual suspects please.
2 posted on 09/11/2003 9:08:26 AM PDT by ThinkPlease (Fortune Favors the Bold!)
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To: ThinkPlease
...but his Education commissioner appears to be making sure that kids in the state won't ever have the education to use the facilites.

How does lack of blind faith in evolution impair one's ablility to engage in genetic research?

3 posted on 09/11/2003 9:18:12 AM PDT by inquest (We are NOT the world)
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To: ThinkPlease
A victory for science. Of course, be prepared for this thread to turn into a vitriolic, hate-filled, anti-science morass...
4 posted on 09/11/2003 9:18:12 AM PDT by Junior (Killed a six pack ... just to watch it die.)
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To: ThinkPlease; PatrickHenry
oh, no... not again...
5 posted on 09/11/2003 9:20:54 AM PDT by King Prout (people hear and do not listen, see and do not observe, speak without thought, post and not edit)
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To: ThinkPlease
INTREP
6 posted on 09/11/2003 9:22:23 AM PDT by LiteKeeper
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To: ThinkPlease
Rejected: "Students will use evidence such as fossils, rock layers, ice caves, radiometric dating and globally gathered data, to explain how Earth may have changed or remained constant over short and long periods of time.''

Actually, this makes more since than saying:"how the earth changed or remained constant" It either changed or remained constant, not both. If evolution does not know which (since the scientific method cannot not be used to demonstrate evolution), it should not be imposed as a dogma.

7 posted on 09/11/2003 9:25:49 AM PDT by HapaxLegamenon
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To: inquest
How does lack of blind faith in evolution impair one's ablility to engage in genetic research?

How do you know they are teaching blind faith, and not "here's why evolution explains things better than x?"

8 posted on 09/11/2003 9:48:13 AM PDT by ThinkPlease (Fortune Favors the Bold!)
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To: ThinkPlease
Are they really going to give "x" any kind of critical treatment, or are they just going to dismiss it?

In any case, what does it have to do with the ability to learn genetic science? Does one need to know how the laws of physics came into being in order to be able to make use of them?

9 posted on 09/11/2003 9:58:14 AM PDT by inquest (We are NOT the world)
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To: inquest
In any case, what does it have to do with the ability to learn genetic science? Does one need to know how the laws of physics came into being in order to be able to make use of them?

Actually, at institutes of higher learning, yes! I spent a rather large amount of time in third and fourth year physics classes understanding why Mawell's equations et al are better than anything else, as well as how to apply them. Same goes in all of my other science courses. High school science courses tend to come off as "just-so-stories" because they have to be general to give students an overview of all of the field. Experimentation in labs serves to provide verification of what is taught in class, independent of the "whys" It's not until later when you begin to really find out why it is believe this is the way things are.

Science builds on what came before it. That's it's power. In astronomy, without the work of the stellar astrophysicists of the 1800's like Henry Draper and Henry Norris Russell, we still would be wondering what's up with those big fuzzy nebulae, and how far away they really were.

10 posted on 09/11/2003 10:08:53 AM PDT by ThinkPlease (Fortune Favors the Bold!)
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To: ThinkPlease
I think that students should have a few lessons in "What Creationists Believe"
When they learn that Creationists believe that the Earth is less than 10,000 years old, that Adam and Eve romped with dinosaurs, and that fossils were placed in the earth by Satan to tempt people into unbelief, even intelligent 8 year olds will realize that Creationists are absolute clowns.

Perhaps the students could also perform skits in which they arrest Galileo, burn witches and execute Giordano Bruno.
11 posted on 09/11/2003 10:19:04 AM PDT by WackyKat
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To: ThinkPlease
But where did Maxwell's laws come from? And is knowing that necessary to their use?
12 posted on 09/11/2003 10:25:16 AM PDT by inquest (We are NOT the world)
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To: inquest
How does lack of blind faith in evolution impair one's ablility to engage in genetic research

How does a Creationist's blind faith in the Bible qualify him to teach modern science to children?

13 posted on 09/11/2003 10:26:22 AM PDT by WackyKat
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To: inquest
In any case, what does it have to do with the ability to learn genetic science?

If you turn it around the question becomes, how can you study DNA if you don't believe it does anything?

14 posted on 09/11/2003 10:31:13 AM PDT by <1/1,000,000th%
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To: inquest
But where did Maxwell's laws come from? And is knowing that necessary to their use?

The theoretical derivations of Maxwell are necessary to understand the next steps in theoretical physics. Like I said, science builds on itself.

For a theoretical physicist, it is useful to know where things came from. For an engineer, each equation is just another tool in the toolbox, right? It depends on your field.

15 posted on 09/11/2003 10:34:57 AM PDT by ThinkPlease (Fortune Favors the Bold!)
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To: WackyKat
I didn't say it did. Now how about answering my question, if you can.
16 posted on 09/11/2003 10:42:19 AM PDT by inquest (We are NOT the world)
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To: <1/1,000,000th%
And in the same vein as #16, I didn't say you could. Now how about answering my question, if you can.
17 posted on 09/11/2003 10:43:36 AM PDT by inquest (We are NOT the world)
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To: VadeRetro; jennyp; Junior; longshadow; *crevo_list; RadioAstronomer; Scully; Piltdown_Woman; ...
PING. [This ping list is for the evolution side of evolution threads, and sometimes for other science topics. FReepmail me to be added or dropped.]
18 posted on 09/11/2003 10:45:40 AM PDT by PatrickHenry (Proud to be "the main instigator" named on the DU "Worst Offenders" list.)
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To: ThinkPlease
The theoretical derivations of Maxwell are necessary to understand the next steps in theoretical physics.

You're talking about something very different than I am. I wasn't asking you how the equations are derived. I was asking you how the laws of physics that they describe, came into being at all. Is it necessary to know the answer to that in order to make use of the equations?

19 posted on 09/11/2003 10:47:01 AM PDT by inquest (We are NOT the world)
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To: ThinkPlease
Creationists always seem to make mistakes in their own favor. No wonder they don't believe in "blind chance!"
20 posted on 09/11/2003 10:47:54 AM PDT by VadeRetro
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