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Toledo bar owners jeer smoking ban
The Beacon Journal ^ | 8/26/03 | Craig Webb

Posted on 08/26/2003 6:40:54 PM PDT by qam1

Customers go elsewhere as new rules take effect in restaurants, taverns

By Craig Webb Beacon Journal staff writer

At a place best known for its hot dogs, cold beer and cross-dressing M*A*S*H character Cpl. Max Klinger, something seemed oddly out of place on Monday.

For one, the bar area at Tony Packo's was almost completely empty during the typically busy noon rush.

And the number of ``no smoking'' signs -- one on every table and a large one at the entrance -- almost outnumbered the hot dog buns, autographed by notable visitors, that are nailed to the wall.

At 12:01 a.m. Sunday, Toledo became the first Ohio community to nip smoking in the butt inside all restaurants, bars and bowling alleys.

As a result, the mood among smokers and bar owners has become spicier than the pickles at the city's signature hot dog spot.

Jason Mandel, the general manager at Tony Packo's, said one regular customer came in Monday afternoon to order one last hot dog and announce he will now be dining in a neighboring suburb where his favorite dining companion -- a cigarette -- is welcome.

Another regular at the restaurant's bar, Mandel said, came in Sunday and made a similar pronouncement and left behind one last tip for the bartender -- $260.

``We will probably lose a lot of business,'' he said. ``But it's too early to tell how much.''

About the only smoke inside the Durty Bird Bar near the Toledo Mud Hens' downtown ballpark was the steam coming from its fuming owner's ears.

``I've been yelling all weekend,'' Alva Babcock Caple III said.

His anger over the ban, which survived a recent effort by tavern owners to gather enough signatures to put it up to a vote in November, has prompted him to take his fight to the streets and attach a large protest sign outside his building.

The rambling sign proclaims that all are welcome inside the smoke-free bar with the exception of the city's mayor and the City Council members who unanimously passed the ban.

``I might have pissed off a couple politicians,'' he said, looking at the large white sign.

For his part, Toledo Mayor Jack Ford is taking the criticism in stride.

Ford stands by his push to ban indoor smoking in public places, arguing it's unfair to expose others to secondhand smoke.

``If we curb secondhand smoke, we have helped out a lot,'' he said. ``I believe that when people get used to it in bars, restaurants and bowling alleys, it will eventually help business and people will enjoy the smoke-free environment.''

Baloney, said tavern owner Eric Trychel.

On the first day of the ban, Trychel saw the typical Sunday night take at his Korner Bar drop from about $300 to just $24.

``It's going to put this town out of business,'' he said. ``We're done.''

If the drop in business isn't bad enough, they argue the price of being caught letting someone smoke is even worse.

A first offense costs $600 for the bar's manager and server to attend a three-hour mandatory smoke-free workplace education session.

The next infraction costs $800 and all the bar's employees at work at the time of the offense must attend the training and be paid their regular salary for their time at the session.

A third infraction costs $1,000 and all employees of the bar or restaurant must be paid to attend the mandatory training. A fourth infraction could cost the business its liquor license.

As for the customers caught smoking, the city will fine them $100.

In addition to sending police officers and air-control inspectors to look for offending businesses, the city has also set up a hot line for residents to report those flicking their ashes at the ordinance. By Monday, a handful of snitches had already dialed the number.

``The city of Toledo can't stop people from smoking crack, but they do this,'' said Ted Grandowicz, owner of Scotty's Cafe. ``If I thought no smoking would have brought in a ton of business -- don't you think I would have done it myself?''

It doesn't appear any other Ohio communities are waiting in the wings to follow Toledo's lead. It's not even being discussed in Akron.

John Mahoney, deputy director of the Ohio Municipal League, a group that represents 815 of the state's 900 cities, said there have been unsuccessful attempts by county health departments, including Toledo's Lucas County and Columbus' Franklin County, to adopt similar smoking bans.

But Toledo, Mahoney said, is the first city in the state to adopt one that includes bars, restaurants and bowling alleys -- popular haunts for smokers.

``Is this issue at the top of every city's agenda?'' he said. ``I don't think so.''


TOPICS: Extended News; Government; News/Current Events; US: Ohio
KEYWORDS: arrogant; cigarettes; ohio; pufflist; smokingbans; tobacco
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1 posted on 08/26/2003 6:40:56 PM PDT by qam1
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To: *puff_list; **Ohio
Nonsmokers making up for the lose of smokers

PING

2 posted on 08/26/2003 6:42:45 PM PDT by qam1
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To: qam1
There just might come a time when it becomes distinctly unhealty to attempt to enforce one's preception of what is (or isn't) healty on another's.
The federal prosecuter in Seattle who was a rabid activist for gun control, and who was subsequently found shot to death comes to mind.........
3 posted on 08/26/2003 6:51:39 PM PDT by rockrr
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To: qam1
Signed hot dog buns nailed to the wall??????? Whats that?????? I'll bet the roaches & rats love this place.
4 posted on 08/26/2003 6:52:09 PM PDT by Ditter
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To: qam1
I don't smoke, but it burns me that politicians are forcing this bon on an act between consenting adults ... the bar patrons, owners, and workers. None of them have to be there, all of them knew there was smoke there before they came.

This is another outrage against property rights and the right of free association!

One could even argue that it is a logical extesion of the War on Some Drugs.

5 posted on 08/26/2003 6:53:53 PM PDT by marktwain
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To: rockrr
Unfortunately the dead bouncer in New York City comes to mind
6 posted on 08/26/2003 6:54:29 PM PDT by qam1
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To: qam1
a three-hour mandatory smoke-free workplace education session.

Amazing, simply amazing. I guess they show slides of lungs of 80 year old smokers and try to pass them off as the lungs of 30 year olds that walked past an ashtray when they were 23?

Even more amazing when you consider that the "science" behind the "2nd-Hand" smoke is only exceeded in its bogus rating by global warming.

7 posted on 08/26/2003 6:56:45 PM PDT by Vladivostok
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To: qam1
As for the customers caught smoking, the city will fine them $100.

And if they choose jail time instead?

Say... 20 at a time?
200?

8 posted on 08/26/2003 7:00:24 PM PDT by Publius6961 (californians are as dumb as a sack of rocks.)
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To: qam1
How about I blow smoke in your face, so you can whine to DU about how mean us Right-Wing Conservative Nazis are? Let me guess. "It's For The Children... Global Warming... PETA... It's A Village..."

When The Government runs your business, Freedom is a fading thought. If business was so bad when it was all smokers, why is it worse without? Why does your kind of Nanny State lying, "Nonsmokers making up for the lose of smokers" sound so much like the "Wild West shootouts! Gunfights over parking spaces!" lies that Socialists like to spout when CCW comes up on a ballot?

9 posted on 08/26/2003 7:15:33 PM PDT by jonascord (Don't bother to run, you'll only die tired...)
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To: qam1
Nonsmokers making up for the lose of smokers

Thats what all anti's claim, haven't seen it happening yet.

10 posted on 08/26/2003 7:16:14 PM PDT by Great Dane (You can smoke just about everywhere in Denmark.)
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To: qam1
If you'd have asked me which municipality was going to do this next, I would not have guessed Toledo.

Banning smoking in bars.... isn't that kind of like barring heroin junkies from crack houses?

11 posted on 08/26/2003 7:20:48 PM PDT by squidly
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To: jonascord
Whoa there, Hold on there buddy.

You should have done your homework and checked my profile or my past responses on the puff list before you responded to me, I am on your side, the Pro-Freedom side.

OK I should have put a </Sarcasm> tag at the end (Actually I could swear I did but for some reason it vanished)

Considering there is nothing in this article about nonsmokers making up for the loss of smokers you should have seen it as sarcasm.

Actually while I am here I will point out I did make another goof it should have been

Nonsmokers making up for the "loss" of smokers not "lose" of smokers.
12 posted on 08/26/2003 7:51:16 PM PDT by qam1 (Don't Patikify New Jersey)
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To: squidly
"Banning smoking in bars.... isn't that kind of like barring heroin junkies from crack houses?"

The politicos would never go for that, because selling drugs makes more money for them then the sale of cigarrets.
13 posted on 08/26/2003 8:01:56 PM PDT by freekitty
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To: qam1
So the madness is spreading to the heartland. Too bad!
14 posted on 08/26/2003 8:02:27 PM PDT by Mears (J)
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To: freekitty
selling drugs makes more money for them then the sale of cigarrets.

I don't know about that, but it does give them an excuse to "appropriate" billions in tax money for their favorite "anti-drug" causes.

15 posted on 08/26/2003 8:04:29 PM PDT by squidly
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To: Ditter
Tony Packos is a long time institution. It's specialty is hot dogs and beer and polka music. Witha little rag time jazz thrown in for good measure. They have hundreds of autographed hot dog buns, covered with glass, lined up on their walls. Actors, politicians, musicians, atheletes, etc. from all over the world are represented. It s a very fun place. Its also very old. Klinger on MASH used to talk about it.
16 posted on 08/26/2003 8:11:05 PM PDT by Khurkris (Ranger On...)
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To: Khurkris
Thanks for the explaination. Like the shoes on the wall in Mulate's.
17 posted on 08/26/2003 8:15:22 PM PDT by Ditter
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To: qam1
"``The city of Toledo can't stop people from smoking crack, but they do this,'' said Ted Grandowicz, owner of Scotty's Cafe. ``If I thought no smoking would have brought in a ton of business -- don't you think I would have done it myself?'' "

This guy needs to be mayor.
18 posted on 08/26/2003 8:18:21 PM PDT by Those_Crazy_Liberals (Ronaldus Magnus he's our man . . . If he can't do it, no one can.)
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To: qam1
"And you thought it was YOUR restaurant. Silly man, it's always been property of The State."
19 posted on 08/26/2003 8:19:02 PM PDT by SJSAMPLE
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To: Great Dane
"Thats what all anti's claim, haven't seen it happening yet."

Besides, that should be up to the bar owner.
20 posted on 08/26/2003 8:19:37 PM PDT by Those_Crazy_Liberals (Ronaldus Magnus he's our man . . . If he can't do it, no one can.)
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