Sobran: "Is the Pope Square?" (for opposing gay "marriage")?

sobran.com ^ | Aug 19, 03 | Joe Sobran

[onyx]

Homosexual marriage is not worth consideration. Not now, not in the past, not ever.

[xzins]

Imagine a society in which homosexuality was considered normal and healthy, while heterosexuals were considered perverted. It would still be necessary to have heterosexual marriage as an institution, even if it was a sort of penal institution, for the sake of taking care of the children these “perverts” produced. Marriage might have no sanctity, but it would still have the same reason. To put it as unromantically as possible, people who have children should be stuck with each other, sharing the responsibility.

Excellent commentary ping

[BibChr]

On the essay as a whole, I'd have to disagree resprectfully on its excellence. Whatever his other good points, Sobran lost me when he said the pope isn't absolute dictator who can change things at his will. RC's will feel bound to disagree, to no avail, but Biblical Christians (and others) know that indeed the Pope can, and has. All he has to do is say "Ex cathedra!" Then RCs feel they have to scramble to explain how it isn't really a change. FR bears that out daily. Responses to this post are likely to do the same.

Dan

[xzins]

I meant the pro-family, anti-homosexual marriage parts....should have been more precise. (Although, for all that, the Catholic Church still has a solid view of marriage and the family.)

[Pyro7480]

The popes have only used "ex cathedra" twice since the pope was declared "infallible" by the First Vatican Council.

[BibChr]

Accepting your assertion for the sake of discussion, for what did they invoke it?

Dan

[Pyro7480]

You're going to love these. ;-) The two ex-cathedra pronouncements were on the Marian doctrines of the Immaculate Conception and the Assumption.

[BibChr]

(1) You're right! I do have to! (c;

(2) Q.E.D.

Dan

[Remole]

To be precise, the Bishop of Rome has declared a teaching free of error only ONCE since 1870: the declaration that Mary, after her natural death, was assumed body and soul into Heaven ("Munificentisimus Deus," by Pope Pius XII on November 1, 1950; the original Latin text is in Denzinger-Schonmetzer, 3900-3904).

[Conservative til I die]

Who cares what you have to say on the matter.

[BibChr]

You and Pyro need to work this out. Remember -- Marquis of Queensbury rules!

Only takes one time to make my point. (c8

Dan

[BibChr]

Why do you ask?

[Remole]

Here's a pleasant suggestion: we'll work out the historical claims and you read the document (your use of "Q.E.D." suggests that you should be able to read the Latin original).

[Porterville]

This is a good debate because it will bring the stray moral lambs back to the curch and lead those lost souls without morality to the depths of darkness seperating the dark from the light, there will be little gray. The Churches that remain moral will discover a new renisance of patrons, where the false dirivative churches, sub cultures, political movements, will wither from the vine. It is a good time to be alive because the choice between right and wrong have never been so strongly clear.

[BibChr]

I'm more than content with THE Document, but, really, thanks anyway.

A man doesn't have to examine every bit of criminal evidence to recognize a counterfeit. He just has to know the marks of the genuine item.

Dan

[.cnI redruM]

A taller and less intelligent version of Howard Dean used to painstakingly remind me that The Spartans promoted homosexuality as a form of maintaining military discipline. Particularly when he saw me in uniform for ROTC drill. This seemed to redeem his Mondays for him completely.

Other 'societies' that at least accepted homosexuality were 19th Century British boy's schools and prisons the world over. Like lower order primates, all of these groups use it as a way to sort out who the Alpha Male is. It involves nothing particularly romantic or mystical.

Sobran is correct that none of these groups even consider homosexual marraige. It would probably make them sick. In fact the Spartans rewarded soldiers that snuck out of the barracks late at night and 'got lucky' with women.

Our modern obsession with gay marraige is a grotesque perversion. A level of debased sickness that makes Osauma Bin Ladin look almost rational when he condemns our despicable morals. It won't kill the US as a nation, symptoms don't do that. However, the underlying perversion and apathy that make this 'movement' possible will ruin our nation in the longrun.

[Conservative til I die]

Because the thread and article was about Catholic teaching on homosexuality, and for whatever reason you felt this was the starting point to start discussing the Church's infallibility doctrine and mariolatry.

[BibChr]

I "discussed" neither.

You being such a poor reader, why should I care what you ask?

[Conservative til I die]

I "discussed" neither.

You didn't write this?: "Whatever his other good points, Sobran lost me when he said the pope isn't absolute dictator who can change things at his will. RC's will feel bound to disagree, to no avail, but Biblical Christians (and others) know that indeed the Pope can, and has. All he has to do is say "Ex cathedra!"

I'll grant you that you didn't discuss Mariolatry. The other guy brought it up. But talking about Pope's creating teachings through "ex cathedra" pronouncements sure sounds like bringing up infallibility arguments.