Posted on 08/18/2003 3:59:39 PM PDT by pinochet
He got everything from small arms [there's a dandy photo of Bar-Lev and Amin playing with a silenced SMG together] to artillery and tanks. What did Amin want that Israel didn't deliver, aircraft?
Israel supplied a number of M4A1(76)W Shermans to Uganda. Both examples with VVSS and HVSS have been spotted in photographs. Apparently they were painted in a shade of green. Markings are unclear, but they seem to have had a two-colour rectangular marking on the left side of the final drive housing. The rectangle was split in two with a diagonal line from the lower left corner to the upper right corner. The upper triangle is green, the lower red. Registration numbers were situated in the same location as on Israeli Shermans, on the front of the final drive housing. They are white digits on a black background, one example seems to read "3/718".
Why then, by the more damning article, would Golda Meir have been, reportedly "shocked at his shopping list" for arms?
As I wrote above, "Israel is always looking for friends." Is it so strange then, for them to have allied with a solidly British backed Muslim whom they hoped might tend to offset Islamist designs on then predominantly Christian southern Sudan?
It wouldn't be the first example of such international gambling gone wrong, where Israel later acted decisively against Amin's vindictive duplicitousness with Islamo-Communist hostage takers.
Or, is it just Jews in general that you have a problem with?
No, that some Israelis did some particularly distasteful things, in part as payback to one of Israel's antagonists, and in part in probable hopes of gaining a little possible political support- in which they REALLY miscalculated, as they found out when Amin's troops assisted the El Al hijackers with their selectzia of Jews at Entebbe. And it likely does not particularly bother some Israeli arms dealers that they've feathered their own nests very profitably.
Not that Milton Obote was any great improvement over Amin, no more so than Golda Meir was over David Ben-Gurion.
Why then, by the more damning article, would Golda Meir have been, reportedly "shocked at his shopping list" for arms?
Probably at the possibility that being marked as such a supplier could have caused more difficulties for Israel. I still haven't heard what it was that Amin asked for that so upset Golda...aircraft? battleships? a nuke....?
As I wrote above, "Israel is always looking for friends." Is it so strange then, for them to have allied with a solidly British backed Muslim whom they hoped might tend to offset Islamist designs on then predominantly Christian southern Sudan?
No more so than if they'd allied with Pakistan. Or Iranian Mullahs over Iraq, as in Saddam's Iraqi-Iranian war. Though the *enemy of my enemy is my friend* aphorism has long been a watchword in the Middle East's shifting alliances, such backdoor deals have too-frequently returned to bite the supplier on the behind, sometimes really embarassingly so. As in Uganda. But at least Amin didn't kill any American sailors or machinegun their lifeboats with Israeli-supplied arms, as the Israelis did for the crew of the USS Liberty in '67.
It wouldn't be the first example of such international gambling gone wrong, where Israel later acted decisively against Amin's vindictive duplicitousness with Islamo-Communist hostage takers.
Nor the first time Israelis have killed their own to win a political point, as with BenGurion's orders to shell the Altalena lest it's supplies reach Jewish resistance movenments other than his own, well supplied by Russian Communists. If BG was willing to kill his fellow Jews, why should we think other Israeli leaders following in his footsteps would particularly be shedding any excess of tears for a few Ugandan or Sudanese Africans?
Or, is it just Jews in general that you have a problem with?
Well, some Jews to be sure; particularly the Jewish Communists and Socialists, and those who sell out their country to the Internationalists. But I took part in the '73 war on the Israeli side as a machalnik tank crewman. And you?
-archy-/-
Do you know what "ZOT" is??
Not Israeli, but rode as a medic into plenty of combat with armored cavalry in Vietnam '68-69.
I see Jewish chosenness in religious terms, i.e., carrying ethical monotheism to the world, so I basically agree with what you say about communists (atheists) and socialists (its own religion, too) through which Jews abnegate God's oneness.
Believing then too, that America, as the Judeo-Christian nation, is also divinely chosen to project and carry goodness into the world, as no one else can on the same scale, I would never condem the people of Israel for what I actually see as the very few political foibles of their leaders.
Both our nations, I believe - though it often seems obscure, and even at times unobtainable through human corruption - yet share a destiny in Holiness.
Except Israel didn't know it was a US ship.
Not Israeli, but rode as a medic into plenty of combat with armored cavalry in Vietnam '68-69.
I arrived at Ton Sohn Nhut on 29 January, 1968, just a few hours before the swell fireworks display welcoming my arrival. They didn't have to go to all that trouble just for me. Neither was I a stranger to 113s and Sheridans, though I spent most of my first tour with the 1/16 Infantry in the Iron Triangle, sometimes detailed to 69th Armor on road escort jobs. Though the expense-paid tour of Southeast Asias spas and resorts was enlightening, I left in March of '70 after an old war injury began acting up. About two weeks old.
Among my other scattershot tasks was introducing young evac medics used to the FLA and Dodge crackerbox wheeled ambulances to tracked M113A1 and M577 medic tracks...and the maintenance thereof. I'll take a *rat six* walk in the woods escort job instead anyday....
I see Jewish chosenness in religious terms, i.e., carrying ethical monotheism to the world, so I basically agree with what you say about communists (atheists) and socialists (its own religion, too) through which Jews abnegate God's oneness.
Concur. [and with myself, too, I guess. Seems likely. But I don't think it's limited to monotheists; the Asatruist Nine Noble Virtues offer a similar outlook that places them squarely alongside our moral outlook; so too does that of some Buddhists, Jainist Gurkhas and Animists I've known.]
Believing then too, that America, as the Judeo-Christian nation,
Well, at least as the primary Judeo-Christian nation, for now at least, if not necessarily for all time, nor as ever was. Or so it seems our adversaries view such things, e.g. *USA= the Great Satan*
is also divinely chosen to project and carry goodness into the world, as no one else can on the same scale, I would never condem the people of Israel for what I actually see as the very few political foibles of their leaders.
Trust me, some of their leiders are as capable of as thoroughly betraying their people and country as some of America's have been. And some, less malevolent in intent, are equally corrupt or incompetent, not much of an improvement.
Both our nations, I believe - though it often seems obscure, and even at times unobtainable through human corruption - yet share a destiny in Holiness.
Again, agreed. And we can even be at cross-purposes or in competition with each other at times [ask the folks at General Dynamics trying to sell Abrams 2000 tank upgrades to the Turks about that!] and yet remain allies. And there are other countries, neutralist or non-aligned, or recently independent, that also come to mind, as well as those swept away by tidal waves of the ant-people; Rhodesia comes to mind immediately, and I hope Taiwan is not soon to follow.
Except Israel didn't know it was a US ship.
Oh. Then they believed they were machinegunning [20mm automatic cannon, actually] the liferafts and survivors of a belligerant with whomn they were at war, a war crime for which their commanders should have then been exectued, just as we executed Yamashita for the actions of the troops for whom he was responsible, though he had no direct knowledge of their activities. But as war crimes, it seems the Israeli actions were much better directed, with radio communications and control at the highest levels.
What do you suggest for them, hanging, as with generals Yamashita and Tojo, and German oberstgeneral Alfred Jodl? Or just for the lower-rankers?
-archy-/-
To that, I must reluctantly plead guilty, if not without hope for a better future, but certainly not from my hands getting messy in its making.
But oh yes, L'Chaim, and Shalom, Chaver! as well.
-archy-/-
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