Today's Free Trade is not about the Free Market

JEFFHEAD.COM ^ | 08/01/2003 | Jeff Head

[Travis McGee]

It's economic suicide to have free trade with a slave nation.

Unless your goal is to reduce your own nation to slave status.

[Cacophonous]

Thanks. The sad part is, "free trade" is not capitalism. It's certainly not free markets (as Jeff Head said); it's a weird sort of globalist feeding frenzy.

[Texas_Dawg]

That's a question sort of like, "Have you stopped beating your wife, yet?"

Sorry... I didn't mean for it to appear to be a trick question. I'm just asking... "If you were President right now, would you nuke China today?" That's all I'm asking. Would you drop a nuclear bomb on China right now if it was up to you? No trick here. Just a Yes or No.

[TopDog2]

There are many issues here. Some of them don't make any sense. For example, one of the basic tenets taught in biz school is that you don't outsource your key competencies, but, in fact, many companies are outsourcing their key competencies of manufacuturing, software development, etc.

Second, one of the gospels of "free trade" is comparative advantage. If everything is being sent overseas, what is the comparative advantage of the United States? It used to be productivity and ingenuity, but with factories and intellecual property being sent to foreign countries, it would seem that we don't have much to offer the rest of the world except a rapidly declining customer base.

[Texas_Dawg]

Here is a little request, learn to debate in a intelligent, mature manner, and it is just a glance, many in the dogmatic free trade crowd simpily throw insults around.

I asked a very simple question and you folks took it to 1 million different conclusions.

[Texas_Dawg]

From the Chinese and Indian viewpoints, it is an economic war against the United States.

So how do you suggest we win this war?

[Texas_Dawg]

Interesting question you have there, how does it apply to the posted read?

It doesn't directly. I'm just curious. Just a simple Yes or No question.

[Poohbah]

From the Chinese and Indian viewpoints, it is an economic war against the United States.

Those who try to engage in economic warfare are those who are inept at both.

[Texas_Dawg]

and continue bleeding the wealth from the U.S. taxpayers and consumers.

That's odd... I seem to be doing just fine. Same goes for 99.999% of Americans I know.

[Sloth]

You have stated some things that I felt but could not articulate.

For free-market capitalism to exist, there must necessarily be individual liberty to make choices about purchasing products and services with one's own money, selecting between competitors, acceptance of employment for an agreed-upon wage, etc. It makes no sense for us to deal with another country as if they are a free market when they're not, any more than it would make sense to treat North Korea as a democratic republic.

[Sloth]

I seem to be doing just fine. Same goes for 99.999% of Americans I know.

I doubt you know 100,000 people and if you did, I suspect more than one of them would have financial problems linked to exported jobs, etc.

[tiamat]

I know, but I think they are related. Like with the cheap Chinese T-shirts: China has Most Favored Nation status. ( If I were running things they would NOT, and largely because of how they go about their manufacturing. I don't like slave labor) They sell us lots of stuff, holding companies buy up lots for Old Navy and we gobble it up.

And the Chinese, and some of these American corporations make scads of dough on the backs of kids, all because "Free Trade" has gone nuts.

The Chinese are getting way more out of the deal than we are too.

Me?

I just don't need that many cheap t-shirts. ( Although it is getting harder and harder to find anything that DOESN'T have a "bad" label in it! ) It's all inter-related.

Tia

[Cacophonous]

...one of the gospels of "free trade" is comparative advantage..

Actually, comparative advantage - the notion that countries should specialize in producing what they can do cheapest - came from David Ricardo, an advocate of "free trade", but NOT, as the astute Mr. Head points out, of free markets. It's basic flaw is that ignores the profit motive.

Ricardo, incidentally, greatly influenced Marx and his ideas formed much of the bases of Marxism / Socialism.

[q_an_a]

This should be in the vanity section not news.

[Texas_Dawg]

For free-market capitalism to exist, there must necessarily be individual liberty to make choices about purchasing products and services with one's own money, selecting between competitors, acceptance of employment for an agreed-upon wage, etc.

That is classic. You make this great statement about what it takes "for free-market capitalism to exist" (and I assume you want it to exist in America) and then in the very next sentence argue why Americans should not be allowed "individual liberty to make choices about purchasing products and services with [their] own money".

[meadsjn]

Would you drop a nuclear bomb on China right now if it was up to you?

Doesn't Hillary have some other tasks for you to do today?

There's a lot of room for action between letting our country get economically raped, and waging war in return.

If you were so opposed to government intervention in economic matters, you would be giving equal time to the elimination of taxes and regulation on American workers.

[Cacophonous]

Those who try to engage in economic warfare are those who are inept at both.

That's inane even for you, Poohbah.

[Sloth]

and then in the very next sentence argue why Americans should not be allowed "individual liberty to make choices about purchasing products and services with [their] own money".

I said no such thing. I don't think there should be any gov't involvement in sales transactions between private parties (except for sales tax on new goods).

[Texas_Dawg]

I doubt you know 100,000 people and if you did, I suspect more than one of them would have financial problems linked to exported jobs, etc.

Not sure exactly how many people I know or know of but I know a bunch and have not heard one single person complaining about "illegals" or "exported jobs". I tend to surround myself with people that work hard and don't look for government handouts (welfare, tariffs, etc.) to solve their problems.

[exnavy]

That is not a simple question, to demand a one word answer to such a complex question is like wearing a " kick me " sign on your back.