The Vietnam Playbook--Living in 1968, still.

National Review ^ | 7-23-03 | Jed Babbin

[TigerLikesRooster]

Re #1

Of course, Democrats want to repeat their earlier success story just as French tried to repeat their WWI success against Germans at the beginning of WWII. Just as Germans did with France, Republicans should employ a new doctrine to smash Democrats into pieces in record time.

[ClearCase_guy]

Anybody have a good source about Tonkin Gulf? I get the feeling it might be like Sen. Joseph McCarthy -- what they teach you in school does not accurately represent the truth.

[I still care]

This is not Vietnam because there is no draft. I was in high school during the early 70's, I well remember the paranoia that pervaded the thinking of the young men about to graduate. So many of them were scared to death, and parents were worried about their kids.

That is not a big piece of this conflict because everyone who is in Iraq in essence signed up at some point for this job.

For an interesting perspective on the war, read Radical son by David Horovitz. He was active in the left during that time, and they thought the protests during the war would bring the country into communism or socialism. They were devastated when after the war ended their movement lost all power. They didn't understand all those kids demonstrating in the street really were just interested in saving their tails.

[angkor]

The conditions in Iraq Vietnam are worse than lousy. The afternoon temperatures often exceed 110 95 degrees, monsoon rains and high humidity are constants, troops are still mostly eating MREs K rations, mail from home is slow, and they are fighting a guerilla war.

I guess I don't understand these constant reports about the "horrible" conditions in Iraq. Could it actually be that the whimpy journos want to go home so badly, that their every interview is secretly about their own discomfort?

Are they now teaching "psycho-projection reporting" at J-schools?

[battlegearboat]

Take a salt tablet and wash it down with a Ba Mui Ba.

Don't pay for it with MPC.

Keep an eye open for Halberstam, Sheehan and Rather.

[CFC__VRWC]

I guess I don't understand these constant reports about the "horrible" conditions in Iraq. Could it actually be that the whimpy journos want to go home so badly, that their every interview is secretly about their own discomfort?

That's probably a huge factor. As further proof, remember all the whining and carping the media indulged in when President Bush took his first vacation at his ranch? They kept whining and carrying on about how horrible Texas was in August, and said this proved Bush was stupid. They were just mad because Bill Clinton took "cool" vacations in Martha's Vineyard, where the press could go to swanky cocktail parties on Walter Cronkite's yacht and, most importantly, avoid any contact with the hoi polloi.

So I would say that a large part of the media attitude does come from the fact that they hate Iraq, but that's secondary to their hatred of Bush and the miltary, and it serves to give them more venom to pour into their anti-American screeds.

[angkor]

wash it down with a Ba Mui Ba.

Ha. Good one. I learned it as plain 'ol Ba Ba.

(For those interested, "33" is the #1 Vietnamese beer. "Ba" is VN for "three", "ba moui" is "three tens" or "30", so "ba moui ba" is "thirty three," or you can simply say "three three" and it's the same thing. In the context of beer, everyone knows what it is.)

[joesnuffy]

tiger piss

[The Great RJ]

I'm sure Dean could adopt McGovern's campaign slogan--"Come Home America." Now the Dems have to find a vice-presidential candidate with a history of mental illness that their nominee can back "1000%."

[freekitty]

I still want to know who the subversives are. Roosevelt had them, Lincoln had them and I am sure others have had them.

Who are the people really against America?

[stylin19a]

HS grads in the early 70's had to feel a little safer about the draft, then those of us who WERE drafted in the 60's.
The draft turned into a lottery 12/1/69. The last lottery was 2/72 for 1973 fullfillment. The 1973 fullfillment never happened.

[I still care]

In a way, yes. That was definately horrible, to have control of your own life taken out of your hands. But can you imagine the anxiety of high school kids waiting to have their name drawn in a lottery, that depending on their number they might be shipped thousands of miles away to face possible death?

The weeks before the lottery happened the tension was so palpable that you could cut it like a knife. And the kids that drew in the 30's through the 80's - they were the worst. They didn't know if they would go or stay. They couldn't make plans for their lives. At least the really low numbers knew what to expect, could get on with their lives.

[angkor]

tiger piss

True enough.

[SJackson]

And the kids that drew in the 30's through the 80's - they were the worst.

Actually 91 had to worry too. The cutoffs were 195/125/95 for 70/71/72

[angkor]

HS grads in the early 70's had to feel a little safer about the draft,

My brother and all his pals were in that last one, they didn't feel "safe" to my recollection.

By the time I signed in 7/75, it was all over.

The only exciting event was that oddball chokepoint alert in 75/76.

[EdReform]

Bump & Ping

[rockfish59]

Well, come on all you big strong men,
Uncle George needs your help again,

And blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.............

[SJackson]

I don't know, but FR is a funny place, someone might pop up who was there. I've read Admiral Stockdale, who was flying cover over the Maddox at the time says it didn't, but I don't think you'll find a definitive answer. Personally, I tend to think it did, but the fact of the matter is it happened Aug 4, the resolution passed three days later. This wasn't Pearl Harbor. The decision was already made, and just looking for a trigger, if it wasn't Tonkin Bay it would have been something else.