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To: thirdheavenward
Are you making the case that Christ did not die for all humans? Why should Christ have suffered for Kate Michelman's sin if such sin would cause God to hate her beyond any possibility of forgiveness?

One of the difficult parts of being a Christian is that in a way the context for every individaul verse is the entire Bible. The views I've expressed here are consistent with orthodox theology and the text of the Word.

16 posted on 07/21/2003 9:34:10 AM PDT by Mr. Silverback (I had to give up jogging, the ice keeps falling out of my glass.)
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To: Mr. Silverback
I think the perspective inherent in the question "Did Christ die for all humans or only some?" is completely backwards. Rather, Christ's sacrifice was simply so valuable, that no amount of sin (of mere humans) could possibly overbalance it. The debt of the sin of a human, no matter how heinous, cannot even compare to Christ's worth. Nor can a million, billion, trillion or any amount by which the man's debt is multiplied. Compared to our own feeble efforts at good works, our sins are a bottomless abbyss of debt. Compared to Christ's sacrifice, our sins, and the sins of the whole world, are nothing, and less than dust on the scales. You cannot equate Christ's sacrifice to either the debt incurred by all of humanity, or by some subset of humanity. Christ's sacrifice is worth infinitely more than the sum total of all of humanity's debts.

Those who do repent have been loved from the foundation of the world, and predestined to become heirs of eternal life. Those evil things they do both before and after are covered by Jesus' Blood. Those who refuse Him do not have forgiveness, and they do not have a portion in Christ or his sacrifice. So then, I see no reason to rule out the possibility that of those who refuse Him, there is a subset of those who are also hated by Him. I too think that what I say is consistent with orthodox theology.

Doesn't orthodoxy say that to save us He could not have done less? And is it not equally clear that He could not have done more? Therefore, since He had no other choice (it was He himself that said, "Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass from me"), other than to let us perish as we deserved, He chose to save us. If these things are true, then His sacrifice was general and not specific. His sacrifice is worth infinitely more than x sinners sins, no matter how great a number is x. Therefore, it is not clear to me that He had to love every specific individual in the general population to make the descision He did.
17 posted on 07/22/2003 1:29:15 PM PDT by thirdheavenward
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