Destroying black youth

TownHall.com ^ | Wednesday, July 2, 2003 | Walter Williams

[Kelly4023]

OP:
"I consider myself a great number of things,"
So do I
"jive-ass" "ebonics for literate"
Defintely not ebonics, but grounded in obsrvation of one's (your) foolishness. You're Welcome.

"OK, but first provide those lists using the 63 racial...."
Op, Black as in BLACK or African American or American of African Ancestry.

"Yep, I'm a spade."
Nah, more like a stick in the mud.

"Every"
You're right. I stand corrected.

"What a maroon!"
Who are you? Buggs Bunny? (No, I'm Elmer J. Fudd, millionaire. I own a mansion and a yacht.)

"the racial attitudes I learned have served me well in many cultures...."
Which cultures?
I've been to The Phillipine Islands, Korea, Mexico, And Austrailia. Met some great people. All they asked for was respect and curtesy, and equal treatment.
How about answering that "production" question?
"K"

[optimistically_conservative]

Which cultures?

You know the saying, join the military ... see the world ... Europe, Middle East, Asia, Carribean, Central and South America. Been to 49/50 states, Mexico and Canada. I found the same thing you did, people want to be treated with respect. In fact, those that receive it least often, appreciate it the most.

Personally, I'd fill the Congress, CEO positions, Executive and Judiciary with the likes of Colin Powell, Condoleeza Rice and J.C. Watts among others. I don't have the answers you're looking for - why the NBA is one color and the board room is another. Does racism play a role? You bet, both sides.

EJF

PS: You're welcome in my mansion and on my yacht, anyday "K"

[Kelly4023]

Man, Are you kidding me? Do you know ANYTHING about American history?
Asians? Maybe in the Caribbean islands, Asains had a hard time.In Amercia, their lives were not as horrific as Blacks, not even close. Are you referring to the Japanese internment in WW2?
Read "http://www.apilegaloutreach.org/projects/rp.html" Asians have/had their own self sufficent communities. In America, many immigrants, including Hispanics, Portugese, Italians, And Asians have their own language and an intact culture along with an insulated community. Many immagrants can go back to a country that has their native tongue and customs. Only Blacks I know that can do that are Black people from the continent of Africa. You speak French?
How many Asians have seen the Klan riding through their neighborhoods at night? How many Asians were told you'd better vote "this way" or you'll have no job tomorrow? Ask Your grandfather. Black people were murdered in mass numbers in this country, and had/have social scientists "proving" we were/are inferior. Read "http://www.popmatters.com/features/030703-affirmativeaction.shtml" and

"http://www.socqrl.niu.edu/forest/XBlack%20Motherhood.htm"
Black people in America have grown up in a culture that, for the most part, denies their worth, and we have no real ties to anywhere but here. We speak English. Unfortunately many of the things our forefathers learned still exist.
You're West Indian. You're not Black anyway. Are you?
Read http://www.workmall.com/wfb2001/caribbean_islands/caribbean_islands_history_political_independence.html and

http://countrystudies.us/caribbean-islands/
That explains where your AND MY educational roots come from, why I HAD to read BEFORE I went to kindergarten, WHY I HAD to be able to write my name address, Telephone number
City, State, Country, and many many other words. Our foreparents came from a system that would have collapsed if the populace wasn't trained to keep it going. School here teaches a kid "if you make it good, if you don't, so what?" A good foundation takes you a long way, especially when you are supported through the growth process. Don't look down on someone unless you're going to help them up.

The Black Middle Class. Don't make me laugh. Name ONE just ONE Black owned producer of raw materials. How about ONE Black owned maker of automobiles. How about Oil refineries? The Black "Middle Class" is one of the biggest consumer markets in the world. We buy everything, work nearly everywhwere, and own very little of consquence on a city, county or state level. I am glad to see more people of color with money and ability to successfully use money, but don't act like we've won the game. When we begin to supply our own utilities, or even own our own supermarkets I'll be impressed. By the way, I grew up middle class; Black or white. I had it like that.
Are you trying to wave some "bourgeoise" at me? Congrats to your Grand. My great grandfather was in the same social circles as W.E.B. DuBois, Booker T. and George Washington Carver. He founded a school for girls in Tampa, Florida. Don't ever forget that your, mine, and your grandfathers prosperity was paid for in blood. The boat your grandad came over on would not have even docked if it weren't for a lot of radical Negroes. (you can take that hanky off your head now).
I don't think I'm going anywhere, God willing. Seems like people like you appreciate "situational history" and don't link the entire march of it together. Just a cursory look at Black American history would change many of your opinions and open your eyes. If you don't know where you came from, you can't know where you're going. Yeah, things have changed, but we are no where near parity in this country, like some (well, you know) people want you to believe. Are you aware of just how dangerous some of those stats quoted in that article are? Look at the websites I posted. Is it just about money or is it continued survival?
To conclude, I drive a Honda, use Quaker State Oil, have perrelli tires, use Shell gasoline, where clothes made in India, China and Japan, paid for with U.S.A. Currency.
Need I say more?
"K"

[nopardons]

Does the CEO of Beatrice Foods count ?

[185JHP]

Marva Collins in Cincinnati has proven what works. Black -and white - scoundrels oppose her. There were more black-owned businesses in Harlem in the 1920s than there are now. Shameful. Sowing hate and excuses defiles the society and poisons the culture.

[rdb3]

Does the CEO of Beatrice Foods count ?

It most certainly does. The late Reginald Lewis (Chapter Invisible) did that.

[Kelly4023]

"Does the CEO of Beatrice Foods count ?"

I guess we have to take what we can get. CEO is good, no doubt. I would like to offer my congratulations to him/her for his/her vision and determination. CEOs are, though, responsible to the Board of Directors, right?
"K"

[Kelly4023]

(Luke) Skywalk(er), if you're having trouble with the information I sent you:
http://www.apilegaloutreach.org/projects/rp.html
Click on "Projects", Then Click on "Reparations"

http://www.popmatters.com/features/030703-affirmativeaction.shtml
Click this hyperlink, Click it on the next screen, scroll down to "Color Me Blind"

http://www.socqrl.niu.edu/forest/XBlack%20Motherhood.htm
Go to "Yahoo" Type "Black Motherhood" in the "search" box, Click "search"; read the second heading under "Black Motherhood"

http://countrystudies.us/caribbean-islands/
Click this hyperlink, Under the heading of Caribbean Islands, read "Social and Economic Developments, 1800-1960" and "Education". Under "Jamacia" click "Education", and under "Trinidad and Tabago" click "Education" and "Growth and structure of the economy"
Sorry about the ambiguity. May the "FORCE!" BE WITH YOU!!
"K"

[Skywalk]

Thanks, I'm on dial-up right now(computer problems) so I'll check them out when I get high-speed back up.

BTW, stick around FR. You seem like a cool guy, just avoid a bit of the hyperbole, and we can disagree but still learn or amend our views a bit.

[nopardons]

He's dead. Ceos don't have to " answer " to the BoDs the way you imagine.

What about the Johnson clan of Chicago ? You know, they who started and still run a magazine conglomerate.

I could go on and on, dear, but you really should do more studying and far less moaning about what blacks haven't accomplished. Wallowing in victimhood and guilt/attainment by association is shallow; not to mention pathetic!

[Kelly4023]

Uh, No:
"He's dead."
My condolences.

Ceos don't have to " answer " to the BoDs the way you imagine."
How do I "imagine"? My experiences have been in the organizations for which I have worked that while the CEO makes many important decisions about the business, makes many crucial decisions on which path the business will follow, If the CEO does not bring forward the CONSCIOUSNESS of the BOD, the CEO is History. AND the CEO collects a salary approved by the BOD. Yes Or No?

Read http://www.daveyd.com/blackwallpolitic.html
Johnson Clan? you mean John Johnson and Linda Johnson-Rice? Johnson products (remember AfroSheen?) You must mean John H. Johnson, Johnson Publishing. Remember John Johnson, the Newscaster in New York? John Henry Johnson, the pro Football player for the Pittsburgh Steelers? Jack Johnson, the first (recognized) Black Heavyweight Champion? How can we not remember James Weldon Johnson? (Lift Every Voice and Sing)?

Maybe you and I should go on. How many of the young people coming behind us know those names, or those accomplisnments? How many people other than Black people know who those peopole are? That sound like moaning to you?
How about the Bing Group in Detroit? I know a smart, culturally literate person like yourself knows who Dave Bing is, right? What about what Earl Graves or Earvin "Magic" Johnson have accomplished? Yeah, I can go on, too.

Wallowing. SOWS wallow. Pehaps YOU have experience in Wallowing. Tell us about it (sooo-Weee!).
Read "the Miseducation of the Negro" by Carter G. Woodson.

If you read any of my other posts, you wouldn't mistake me for a victim, just someone who won't get pissed on and accept the "it's raining" explanation. If I inspire any guilt in anyone maybe THEY should look inside their own heart, and see what's going on.
Read "Trauma and Recovery". You will get an accurate explanation of how victims' lives progress. The "just move on" request DOES NOT WORK. I have been blessed with good health, a sound mind, a good job, my own house, car money and investments, good friends, both parents, siblings, ect. AND I PAID for my own college education, undergrad and Grad.
"I don't want nobody to give me Nothin', jus open up the door, an I'll git it myself" (James Brown)
Just because a few of us, many of us have made some headway, don't think we have achieved PARITY: economic or political: the real seats of power. We are still trying to achieve educational parity, thus A/A and "college campus diversity". There are some Black owned oil companies; they drill and refine their own oil. There are some Black owned firms specializing in technology. But the majority of our industry is dependent on white people: service providers. Not bad, if we are treated equitably, which is not always the case. True or untrue? Deep Enough?"

Judge Thomas is right. I don't have to beleive what I'm told to believe. If you remember the post that started all of this, you'll remember the stats say that Black kids lag behind white kids in the very primary eduactional areas like math, reading and science. The following posts suggest that there is something wrong with black people: we're clever, not really intelligent. We're lazy and looking for a hand out (A/A). Our culture doesn't revere education, the majority of us submit to peer pressure (acting white)and our parents are remiss in their duties: they don't make sure that we are ready for to enter school, and don't participate in the parent-teacher relationship building process. In the meantime our inner city schools are terrible.
Read: http://www.findarticles.com/cf_dls/m1295/8_64/63904155/p1/article.jhtml
http://www.diversityweb.org/research_and_trends/research_evaluation_impact/student_learning_outcomes/sweeping_new_defense.cfm
http://www.libertyforum.org/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=news_history&Number=389489&page=&view=&sb=&o=&part=1&vc=1&t=0

You shared your opinion, good. Look up some of the books and webpages I posted. Opinions are like (you know what), every one has one. Some are stinkier than others. Back it up with something.
"OFF THE PIG!"
"K"

[Kelly4023]

Look "Man"
Have you ever heard of Alton Maddox? Look him up and tell me he's being treated fairly, "under the law". Remember Rubin "Hurricane" Carter?

[nopardons]

" OFF THE PIG " ? As in the "PIG " being a cop ?

You are indeed WALLOWING , in denile ( it ain't just a damned river ! ), and playing the race card eveery which way to Sunday.

And you ask who knows the names you've mentioned ? WEll, for starters, tons of black and white Americans of all ages; that's who.You pound your chest, moan and groan, and piss down everyone else's legs and tell them that blacks don't own anything " BIG ". When hit upside your head, you grudgingly cave...slightly and continue to rage like some demented "Rev " on a street corner.

WAKE UP ! Just because some black person is a CEO/owns an oil company/is a movie star/makes a ton of money, that isn't a reflection on you.Neither is it YOUR fault, if a black is a prostitute/pimp/dope dealer/rapist.

You have very little knowledge, obviously, about CEOS abd BoDs. Many people on BoDs are "yes men"/friends, who have been given that position and well paid for job as a perk; they don't really do a damned thing. Hillary was put on the BoDs of a frozen yogurt firm . You think she's done anything other than to just take the money ? If so, I have a great bridge to sell you, dear.

Oh yes, and here's a bit of a surprise, dear ... I AM A WHITE WOMAN . :-)

Yes, that's right, I'm white and I probably know and have known more upper middle and upper class blacks than you do. I know black history ( it was taught, long before the pathetic, stupid " BLACK HISTORY MONTH " ever got installed, in N.Y.C., for one place !)and a great many names of blacks, who have " made it ", made it better and higher than most whites ever have or will ever. People are people...Martin Luther King Jr.said ( paraphrasing here ) that he wanted his children to be judged by their merits,not by the color of their skin. That's how I've ALWAYS treated EVERYONE I've ever known...way before he ever said it.

I don't have any " white guilt " and you should't have any " black guilt ". Are you REALLY a Conservative ? How so, when at least part of you still seems to be stuck on the Dem " plantation " ?

[nopardons]

Alton Maddox ? The guy who was one of the triumpherate with Al Sharpton, in the Twana Brawely case ? That Maddox ? LOL

[Kelly4023]

Oh, NO!
'Pardon' me, but
the word you're trying to use is T-R-I-U-M-V-I-R-A-T-E: a group or association of three. LOL.

Yeah, LOL him, LOL. How about "letting a man eat"? How about letting a man get on with his life? 13 years unable to practice law, which is his profession. Killers, child molesters, armed felons, white-collar criminals, who have stolen millions, and wrecked families have received less time. LOL. Why is he not being allowed to practice? LOL.

Read:
http://afro.com/information/news/current/ne.html
http://www.globalblacknews.com/Lamb15.html

LOL:
"K"

[nopardons]

Of course you're correct and I should know how to spell that word; especially after having had 4 years of Latin.My poor dyslexic brain cells were working overtime on that jarring misspelling.

As to Maddox, he is guilty of helping to perpitrate a fraud, ruining a man's reputation, and the Brawley case isn't his first brush with criminality.

How about YOU stop playing race games ? That's ALL you do. I bet you think O.J. is " innocent " too.Try getting off the " plantation ". On second thought, try just being a HUMAN ; instead of always seeing everything through a racial veil ?

Oh yes, and try this one on some of the REAL black Conservatives on this site. :-)

[Kelly4023]

NO! NO! NO! NO! NO!!!!
lots of typos. You should really try not to answer anyone, especially me, in a highly emotional state. I'll keep this one clean:
First:"I could go on and on, dear, but you really should do more studying and far less moaning about what blacks haven't accomplished. Wallowing in victimhood and guilt/attainment by association is shallow; not to mention pathetic!" = (equals) WHITE WOMAN.
So it really wasn't necessary to print that you were a white woman. Who cares? Is it some badge of honor or prestige you like to toss around: "I'm a white woman who thinks she knows a little bit about black people". I took black history", I know some "elite negroes" who I can sit up and sip cognac (or is it Scotch?) with, and we can talk about what's wrong with those lazy, poor, ghetto blacks who aren't like you"? YOU are pathetic and very RACIST. And don't even know it. (D-E-N-I-A-L, not denile: refusal to admit the truth or reality). Besides, I thought we were
all "people" here.
NEXT: Hit "upside" (?) the head? Was that what that was? Caved in? Or was I simply acknowledging progress made by Blacks, which should be recognized as hard work paying off?
I asked a number of Black people where I live and some knew the names I printed, some didn't. TONS? I'll say not tons. NONE of the white people I asked knew any one but the football player. And few knew him!

POINT MADE (and never refuted): Yes Black people have made major strides in this country. QUESTION TO YOU AND YOUR "ELITE CROWD": HAVE Black people gained economic, educational, political or financial PARITY (the operative word!) with white people in America? Why or Why not? (hold that thought, I'm coming back to this)

REFLECTIONS OF......
Don't you or anyone get this twisted: When a Black person makes it in this country, wether it is as a "movie star" or as a "manager of McDonalds" it is a reflection on ALL OF US HIGHLIGHTING THE PROGRESS WE ARE CAPABLE OF. WE, prior to the "buppie era" (you know what that is, right?) and the self-gratifying late 70's into the 80's, TOOK CARE OF EACH OTHERS CHILDREN. For a kid to turn out bad was not just a failure of the kid to make better choices,or the family to provide a stable environment, but a breakdown of the neighborhood resources that were supposed to be in place to help kids. We had to rely on each other. That is how I came up. That is what saved my life. Some were lost but most weren't. I know that personally. I KNOW all of those characters mentioned, and have been some of them. MY self, family and neighborhood were instrumental in who I AM NOW. It is my job as an adult to carry that on. Called REFLECTION! You sure you know some real Black people? Besides, before we were able to live in the ritzy "formerly white only" neighborhoods, we had professional people in the neighborhoods that were accessible. Now, many Black people, SOME NOT ALL, unfortunately, move out of the neighborhoods they began their progress in, making their example unaccessable to some of the more impressionable neighborhood kids. Maybe they leave with what they believe is good reason. Maybe some think that to move into "this" neighborhood they will have truly "made it"......
CEO/BOD:
Once again: MY EXPERIENCE IN MY (healthcare) profession, in talking to, researching, visiting people on the BOD of the hospitials I worked for and in has been people with some connection to the business, not just a hot butt in a cold seat. I don't care what Hillary does: she is a professional politican. She supposed to go where the money is. I'd want to know more about a backroom deal or a concession somewhere. Would you have a bunch of nodding heads on the BOD of a company you owned? ($$$$ only?).

I believe the paraphrase was more like he wanted God's children to be judged by the content of their character, not the color of their skin? God's Children? (Go look it up in your Black history notes. You know, the ones you took before that pathetic Black History month).

Now: your analogies: Pig: wallowing
Ape: beating chest
Dog: pissing down everyone's leg
Slave: stuck on Dem's plantation
All said because I disagree with you. Interesting the animal and then the Slave (domesticated ? animal)analogies. Just like a typical prejudiced racist, my actions are equaled with that of a sub human entity. Same mentality of many of the evil little kids I went to Catholic school with who weren't racist or prejudiced. Neither were their parents, who taught them to say those same things. But we've all grown past that, haven't we?
It is time for all of us to just be people, right?
AND WHAT DO YOU KNOW ABOUT A PLANTATION? I know, Black History!
How about the stories from actual great-great-grandparent (FAMILY) accounts, and how they manifest themselves today, in 2003? How do you think actually seeing Ku Klux Klan riders riding through your front yard would affect you?
How about watching your father get slapped around by the racist deputy sherriff, knowing he can't do anything about it? Watching your father stand up and cry like a baby, cause if he fought, he and his family would be killed?
I'm sorry. That was so long ago, it bears no relavance to this day and age. Just good ol' American History!!
(...part of that bridge you bought and are trying to sell)

You have struggled to change the path of this correspondence to something far from the original (street tactic; what is the name of your trailer park?)
HELD THOUGHT: The flavor of the original post suggests that A/A isn't working anymore, white kids are outperforming black kids academically, "minority schools" have more crime and less achiecvement, thus creating an inadequately educated underclass of primarily "minority people" which will not be able to compete with the "educationally elite". This undereducation by whatever means it is achieved can and has been construed as Black people being inferior to white people. My driving thought behind all of my posts is "If we haven't attained parity, how can we be expected to compete at the same level? If the playing field isn't level, how can Black people attain the similar goals? WHEN WILL the playing field be level?
As gifted and as wonderful as they are, when "W" says to Condi or Colin "go"; they go. When he says "come" they
come.

Those "Black" people you say you know, they are Black history. I and my family, we are Black history. We KNOW what it takes to go out and get ours regardless of the obstacles, which are many. My point to all of this is that just because I "made it" (and I have) dosen't mean you can make it the same way. Strangers to hard work don't get anywhere. Black history will tell you that some of my people worked hard and didn't get anywhere through no fault of their own. Sweeping changes in the educative process, from the top to the bottom, ARE needed. Thinking or acting like everything will be alright when "they" accept their "American" responsibility and just "go to school" is too shortsighted. We're blaming. Those of us that can, by knowing how to make a difference, SHOULD.

I have nothing (not much) against Cops. I hate ignorance-in-authority.

As Always:
Very Special "K"

---

[r9etb]

While I'm against these Affirmative Action programs -- both on principle, and because they don't work -- I guess I'm a little confused over why Walter's worked up about the idea of "compelling state interest."

If Michigan wants to make Affirmative Action admission policies, it seems that the 10th Amendment gives them every right to do so.

[Kelly4023]

Stevie:
Hope you don't think I was ignoring you.
I beleive the quote by Jesse was "it is a sad commentary on America when if I'm walking down the street at night and hear a group of young men walking behind me, I feel relieved if they are white." Comment made because of the stereotyping of Young Black Males as thugs and criminals.
I'm not done with you yet.....

[Lijahsbubbe]

One thing I don't understand is why people say "don't make everything about race", but whenever they describe someone they include "black" in the description. (oh, that black lady over there, etc.)

Also, I hear many making fun of 'ebonics', but I've noticed that it always becomes used by white people.(what's up, I heard that, gimme five, what's happenin', etc.)