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Hillary Convinced Bill to Bomb Serbia
Truth In Media ^ | June 11, 2003 | Bob Djurdjevic

Posted on 06/19/2003 9:30:09 AM PDT by uplandgame

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To: uplandgame
So Hilary, we know, liked to kiss Suha Arafat and the Palestineans as well. Here we see her involvement but not any clear picture why. I would speculate that more than the motivation to help cure 'ethnic cleansing' resulting from faked NRO mass grave reconnaissance is going on here. Recall the "I'll take domestic." statement of Hillary. She would clearly do such things as bombing Kosovo purely for domestic political distraction and spin.
41 posted on 06/19/2003 1:20:04 PM PDT by flamefront (To the victor go the oils. No oil or oil-money for islamofascist mass annihilation weapon production)
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To: MattinNJ
Just confirms what I suspected about the Clintons, Hillary was the one with balls.
42 posted on 06/19/2003 1:25:05 PM PDT by Sparta (Tagline removed by moderator)
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To: uplandgame
"With all due respect, I find Hoplite only being interested in obfuscation and denial when it comes to Balkan. "

So I see. It certainly looks like he is intentionally being deceptive.

43 posted on 06/19/2003 1:26:39 PM PDT by DannyTN (Note left on my door by a pack of neighborhood dogs.)
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To: uplandgame
Thanks for the article. The author makes some good points on immigration. I was not surprised that, in light of the article, the map doesn't quite speak the same as when it was thrown out by itself to make the author appear racist and discredit him.
44 posted on 06/19/2003 1:30:30 PM PDT by DannyTN (Note left on my door by a pack of neighborhood dogs.)
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To: DannyTN; Pagey
From: http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/du.htm (they are leftist bastards, but their technical information tends to be quite good)

Depleted Uranium
In military applications, when alloyed, Depleted Uranium [DU] is ideal for use in armor penetrators. These solid metal projectiles have the speed, mass and physical properties to perform exceptionally well against armored targets. DU provides a substantial performance advantage, well above other competing materials. This allows DU penetrators to defeat an armored target at a significantly greater distance. Also, DU's density and physical properties make it ideal for use as armor plate. DU has been used in weapon systems for many years in both applications.
Depleted uranium results from the enriching of natural uranium for use in nuclear reactors. Natural uranium is a slightly radioactive metal that is present in most rocks and soils as well as in many rivers and sea water. Natural uranium consists primarily of a mixture of two isotopes (forms) of uranium, Uranium-235 (U235) and Uranium-238 (U238), in the proportion of about 0.7 and 99.3 percent, respectively. Nuclear reactors require U235 to produce energy, therefore, the natural uranium has to be enriched to obtain the isotope U235 by removing a large part of the U238. Uranium-238 becomes DU, which is 0.7 times as radioactive as natural uranium. Since DU has a half-life of 4.5 billion years, there is very little decay of those DU materials.





Sources and Resources
20mm MK149
25mm PGU-20
25mm M919 Armor Piercing, Fin Stabilized, Discarding Sabot, with Tracer (APFSDS-T)
30mm PGU-14/B API Armor Piercing Incendiary
120mm M829 Armor Piercing, Fin Stabilized, Discarding Sabot-Tracer (APFSDS-T)

RAND REVIEW INDICATES NO EVIDENCE OF HARMFUL HEALTH EFFECTS FROM DEPLETED URANIUM April 15, 1999 -- The Department of Defense announced today the release of a RAND scientific literature review that indicates no evidence of harmful health effects directly linked to depleted uranium exposures at levels experienced by Gulf War veterans.
DEPLETED URANIUM A Review of the Scientific Literature As It Pertains to Gulf War Illnesses April 1999 --RAND Health's Center for Military Health Policy Research and the Forces and Resources Policy Center of the National Defense Research Institute, sponsored by the Office of the Special Assistant
DoD News Briefing -- Bernard D. Rostker, Special Assistant for Gulf War Illnesses April 15, 1999 - Natural uranium is 40 percent less radioactive than depleted uranium, so any conclusions that you can draw on natural uranium, say of a negative nature, can be applied equally well to depleted uranium.
FACT SHEET: DEFENSE DEPARTMENT DESCRIBES DEPLETED URANIUM USE Voice of America 03 May 1999
HEALTH AND ENVIRONMENTAL CONSEQUENCES OF DEPLETED URANIUM USE BY THE U.S. ARMY U.S. Army Environmental Policy Institute June 1994

DULink provides information to Gulf War veterans concerned with exposure to DU during service in the Gulf War.
Depleted Uranium: agent orange of the 90's / another pentagon coverup @ Military Toxics Project
DEPLETED URANIUM EDUCATION PROJECT @ International Action Center -- Radioactive Battlefields--The Pentagon's New Weapon
Metal of Dishonor - How the Pentagon Radiates Soldiers & Civilians with Depleted Uranium Weapons
45 posted on 06/19/2003 1:50:09 PM PDT by El Sordo
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To: Hoplite; DannyTN
The map was satire as a warning against Balkanization of America. Nice try.
46 posted on 06/19/2003 3:03:45 PM PDT by Destro (Know your enemy! Help fight Islamic terrorisim by visiting www.johnathangaltfilms.com)
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To: DannyTN
You are putting forth an article that refers to 100,000 missing, when the original article, which you are being tasked with verifying, refers to claims of 100,000 dead.

Do you understand the issue here?

Doesn't seem like it - you're using a misquotation or misrepresentation to discredit the original source.

47 posted on 06/19/2003 3:10:08 PM PDT by Hoplite
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To: uplandgame
Would you please reveal your sources regarding those 5000 bodies exhumed in Kosovo?

4211 recovered in Kosovo by Jan of 2002
Killings and Refugee Flow in Kosovo March - June 1999  (Page 25, .pdf)

KURSUMLIJA -- Monday – Some 900 bodies have been exhumed so far from mass graves in Serbian territory, says the Coordination Centre for Kosovo.Source

I don't have to try anything fast, Upland - both the Freezer Truck and Racak and their aftermath only point to lies emanating from the Milosevic camp - Milosevic is charged with a smaller subset of the whole because the stronger evidence in those instances warranted inclusion in the indictment, rather than the court going through the evidence for each and every corpse that could be laid at his feet.

48 posted on 06/19/2003 3:36:52 PM PDT by Hoplite
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To: Hoplite
I understand the guy is claiming he only said they were "missing". But Nato and Clinton used his number to say they were "missing and may have been murdered". The impression given to the public at the time by Clinton and NATO officials was of a massacre. And nobody corrected it.

Well they were wrong! There was not 100,000 murdered. There was not 10,000 murdered.

http://www.counterpunch.org/biglie.html
http://chiffonrouge.org/resistance/article.php3?id_article=132
http://www.balkanpeace.org/monitor/mgen12.html
49 posted on 06/19/2003 3:44:46 PM PDT by DannyTN (Note left on my door by a pack of neighborhood dogs.)
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To: Destro
Perhaps you should read the article before you put your two cents in, Destro - I know it's not your style to actually have a clue as to what you're talking about, I'm just saying it would be a nice change.

What’s happening in Bosnia is going to happen in the United States.

As a bonus, Destro, why don't you figure out where you'll live in Bob's hypothetical future. Doesn't seem to be any "Orthodoxland" does there?

50 posted on 06/19/2003 3:44:54 PM PDT by Hoplite
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To: Destro
"The map was satire as a warning against Balkanization of America. Nice try. "

Had I not instantly seen through his ploy, I would have felt "lefted".

51 posted on 06/19/2003 3:47:10 PM PDT by DannyTN (Note left on my door by a pack of neighborhood dogs.)
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To: Destro
The map was satire as a warning against Balkanization of America. Nice try

Hoplite always uses this example of Bob's "foolishness." Boring!

You's think soemone with a Greek pseudonym would understand satire...hmmm.

52 posted on 06/19/2003 3:56:10 PM PDT by kosta50
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To: DannyTN
If you'll recall, we were thinking upwards of 7,000 people died in the WTC attacks - figure you'll be using the same line of argument you're using here in that case any time soon?

As better information became available, the number was revised down - just as happened in Kosovo.

Why is this so hard for you to grasp? You comment to Destro that you're afraid of being 'lefted', but you've climbed into bed with the Serbian Socialist Party and all it's associated scum on this one.

Think about it.

In the meantime, if you wish to pursue this, either find a quote supporting what the original article on this thread puts forth, or acknowledge the author is misrepresenting the facts.

And try to make that an original quote - not something you dredge up from the World Socialist Web Site or some other such nonsense, Ok?

53 posted on 06/19/2003 4:11:00 PM PDT by Hoplite
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To: Hoplite
"If you'll recall, we were thinking upwards of 7,000 people died in the WTC attacks - figure you'll be using the same line of argument you're using here in that case any time soon?"

Initial estimates were much higher than that. But there is a big difference. We knew an unjust atrocity had occurred in the WTC attacks. We could see it. The attack was never in question, the unjustness was never in question, only the body count. And it was quickly revised downward as information came available. That it was lower than what any reasonable man would have guessed was great and indicative of some divine protection still afforded us.

In the serbia situation we were relying on the politicians who were telling us that "genocide" was occuring. "100,000 missing and may have been murdered". That indeed made the Serbian Socialist party look like scum.

But what if the Socialists were fighting against Islamic terrorists? Which is what they claimed. A couple of thousand killed in battle could be completely explainable as deaths in a just war against terrorists.

you've climbed into bed with the Serbian Socialist Party and all it's associated scum on this one.

I'm not fond of socialists. Socialism is a failed economic model and is stupid. I am less fond of dictated socialism like the Soviets as opposed to democratic socialism like the French. It's still a stupid model but the people chose it.

But I'm not sure that the Serbian socialists were murderers instead of defenders. We know there are elements in Islam that are murderous, terrorist and expansionary. Which of the two, the Socialist or the Islamists, were more evil? I don't know.

Find a quote.

One of the links I posted last quoted Secretary of State Cohen as saying "100,000 missing and may have been murdered". The facts are pretty clear, from both the Times article and the Boston Globe as well as the other links. They led us to believe a huge massacre had occurred, when it hadn't.

54 posted on 06/19/2003 4:34:39 PM PDT by DannyTN (Note left on my door by a pack of neighborhood dogs.)
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To: Hoplite
Just in case I wasn't clear. The point being that if "mass genocide" was occuring, then the Socialist's position is unquestionably "unjust".

However, it turns out to be a couple of thousand and that can possibly be explained by a "just" war against terrorists.

So that put's us in the position that the NATO and Clinton polititians clearly exaggerated and possibly outright lied. Which means we have to consider the possiblitiy that the Socialist's were in fact telling the truth.

It may be that the socialists were lying and are guilty of murder and war crimes although not as large as our politicians led us to believe. It may also be that the Socialists are guilty only of being socialists and not of war crimes.

55 posted on 06/19/2003 5:03:50 PM PDT by DannyTN (Note left on my door by a pack of neighborhood dogs.)
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To: DannyTN
It may be that the socialists were lying and are guilty of murder and war crimes although not as large as our politicians led us to believe. It may also be that the Socialists are guilty only of being socialists and not of war crimes.

I think this was the scenerio. I've talked to Serbian MUPs that were in Kosovo during all of this. They had very strict orders not to harm any Albanians that were not hurting any Serbs. That being said, they also claimed that many Albanians were killed and trucked out. Serbian intelligence knew very well where the KLA cells were operating and which Albanian clans were supporting them. I assume they weren't shone much mercy when Serb forces happened upon them.

Ironicly, they claim that many more Albanians (I'm going to assume innocent) would have been killed if Milosevic weren't so vehemently opposed to attacks on just any Albanians.

So, we've got regular Serb forces fighting the KLA and dodging NATO's bombs, the KLA fighting Serb forces and any group of Albanians loyal to Serbia or opposed to the KLA, Serb paramilitary and militia groups fighting anything Albanian, NATO acting as the KLA's airforce, and the US State Department shovelling crap to the US public via the media.

There were war crimes committed (has there ever been a war when there wasn't any war crimes committed?) We were lied to in regards to what degree and exactly what was actually going on on the ground.

One US State Department official I spoke to claims we got involved in Bosnia because something had to be done to stop the fighting (I disagree with him, but that's another story) but our reasons for getting involved in Kosovo were stricly political. I bought the guy a few drinks and tried to pry more information out of him, but he wouldn't expound.

56 posted on 06/19/2003 6:10:50 PM PDT by getoffmylawn (Chauncey Gardner or Bob Roberts?)
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To: Hoplite
yea and to stress his point-you had this discussion before Hoplite--you posted that same map once before--her gave an example of Balkanization. By the way--Levar Burton (Star Trek's Geordi) wrote a whole novel about this future possibility.

As for the Orthodoxia---Why Alaska of course! Orthodox Christianity is the native religion of the natives there!

57 posted on 06/19/2003 6:44:54 PM PDT by Destro (Know your enemy! Help fight Islamic terrorisim by visiting www.johnathangaltfilms.com)
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To: MattinNJ; uplandgame; Sparta; weikel; Hoplite
F'ing! A! That's what I call talk friggin radio!!!!
58 posted on 06/19/2003 6:56:34 PM PDT by Destro (Know your enemy! Help fight Islamic terrorisim by visiting www.johnathangaltfilms.com)
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To: DannyTN
Is my lefted going to become hugh?
59 posted on 06/19/2003 6:58:13 PM PDT by Destro (Know your enemy! Help fight Islamic terrorisim by visiting www.johnathangaltfilms.com)
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To: Destro
"Is my lefted going to become hugh? "

It's a series candidate.

60 posted on 06/19/2003 7:03:02 PM PDT by DannyTN (Note left on my door by a pack of neighborhood dogs.)
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