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Psychiatric Association Debates Lifting Pedophilia Taboo ^ | 6/11/03 | Lawrence Morahan

Posted on 06/11/2003 2:18:54 AM PDT by kattracks

( - In a step critics charge could result in decriminalizing sexual contact between adults and children, the American Psychiatric Association (APA) recently sponsored a symposium in which participants discussed the removal of pedophilia from an upcoming edition of the psychiatric manual of mental disorders.

Psychiatrists attending an annual APA convention May 19 in San Francisco proposed removing several long-recognized categories of mental illness - including pedophilia, exhibitionism, fetishism, transvestism, voyeurism and sadomasochism - from the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM).

Most of the mental illnesses being considered for removal are known as "paraphilias."

Psychiatrist Charles Moser of San Francisco's Institute for the Advanced Study of Human Sexuality and co-author Peggy Kleinplatz of the University of Ottawa presented conferees with a paper entitled "DSM-IV-TR and the Paraphilias: An Argument for Removal."

People whose sexual interests are atypical, culturally forbidden or religiously proscribed should not necessarily be labeled mentally ill, they argued.

Different societies stigmatize different sexual behaviors, and since the existing research could not distinguish people with paraphilias from so-called "normophilics," there is no reason to diagnose paraphilics as either a distinct group or psychologically unhealthy, Moser and Kleinplatz stated.

Participants also debated gender-identity disorder, a condition in which a person feels discomfort with his or her biological sex. Homosexual activists have long argued that gender identity disorder should not be assumed to be abnormal.

"The situation of the paraphilias at present parallels that of homosexuality in the early 1970s. Without the support or political astuteness of those who fought for the removal of homosexuality, the paraphilias continue to be listed in the DSM," Moser and Kleinplatz wrote.

A. Dean Byrd, vice president of the National Association for Research and Therapy of Homosexuality (NARTH) and a clinical professor of medicine at the University of Utah, condemned the debate. Taking the paraphilias out of the DSM without research would have negative consequences, he said.

"What this does, in essence, is it has a chilling effect on research," Byrd said. "That is, once you declassify it, there's no reason to continue studying it. What we know is that the paraphilias really impair interpersonal sexual behavior...and to suggest that it could be 'normalized' simply takes away from the science, but more importantly, has a chilling effect on research."

"Normalizing" pedophilia would have enormous implications, especially since civil laws closely follow the scientific community on social-moral matters, said Linda Ames Nicolosi, NARTH publications director.

"If pedophilia is deemed normal by psychiatrists, then how can it remain illegal?" Nicolosi asked. "It will be a tough fight to prove in the courts that it should still be against the law."

In previous articles, psychiatrists have argued that there is little or no proof that sex with adults is necessarily harmful to minors. Indeed, they have argued that many sexually molested children later look back on their experience as positive, Nicolosi said.

"And other psychiatrists have written, again in scientific journals, that if children can be forced to go to church, why should 'consent' be the defining moral issue when it comes to sex?" she said.

But whether pedophilia should be judged "normal and healthy" is as much a moral question as a scientific one, according to Nicolosi.

"The courts are so afraid of 'legislating someone's privately held religious beliefs' that if pedophilia is normalized, we will be hard put to defend the retention of laws against child molestation," Nicolosi noted.

In a fact sheet on pedophilia, the APA calls the behavior "criminal and immoral."

"An adult who engages in sexual activity with a child is performing a criminal and immoral act that never can be considered normal or socially acceptable behavior," the APA said.

However, the APA failed to address whether it considers a person with a pedophile orientation to have a mental disorder.

"That is the question that is being actively debated at this time within the APA, and that is the question they have not answered when they respond that such relationships are 'immoral and illegal,'" Nicolosi said.

Dr. Darrel A. Regier, director of research for the APA, said there were "no plans and there is no process set up that would lead to the removal of the paraphilias from their consideration as legitimate mental disorders."

Some years ago, the APA considered the question of whether a person who had such attractions but did not act on them should still be labeled with a disorder.

"We clarified in the DSM-IV-TR...that if a person acted on those urges, we considered it a disorder," Regier said.

Dr. Robert Spitzer, author of a study on change of sexual orientation that he presented at the 2001 APA convention, took part in the symposium in San Francisco in May.

Spitzer said the debate on removing gender identity disorder from the DSM was generated by people in the homosexual activist community "who are troubled by gender identity disorder in particular."

Spitzer added: "I happen to think that's a big mistake."

What Spitzer considered the most outrageous proposal, to get rid of the paraphilias, "doesn't have the same support that the gender-identity rethinking does." And he said he considers it unlikely that changes would be made regarding the paraphilias.

"Getting rid of the paraphilias, which would mean getting rid of pedophilia, that would not happen in a million years. I think there might be some compromise about gender-identity disorder," he said.

Dr. Frederick Berlin, founder of the Sexual Disorders Clinic at the Johns Hopkins Hospital, said people who are sexually attracted to children should learn not to feel ashamed of their condition.

"I have no problem accepting the fact that someone, through no fault of his own, is attracted to children. But certainly, such an individual has a responsibility...not to act on it," Berlin said.

"Many of these people need help in not acting on these very intense desires in the same way that a drug addict or alcoholic may need help. Again, we don't for the most part blame someone these days for their alcoholism; we don't see it simply as a moral weakness," he added.

"We do believe that these people have a disease or a disorder, but we also recognize that in having it that it impairs their function, that it causes them suffering that they need to turn for help," Berlin said.

E-mail a news tip to Lawrence Morahan.

Send a Letter to the Editor about this article.

TOPICS: Breaking News; Culture/Society; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: apa; catholiclist; dsmivtr; frederickberlin; genderiddisorder; homosexual; homosexualagenda; johnshopkins; longmarch; narth; nicolosi; paraphilias; pederasty; pedophilia; psychology; robertspitzer; sexualdisorders
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To: kattracks
Just as I said on other threads, that what wasn't accepted yesterday but is today, and what isn't accepted today someone will want to tomorrow - well, that day is now here.

161 posted on 06/11/2003 4:51:44 PM PDT by ApesForEvolution ("The only way evil triumphs is if good men do nothing" E. Burke)
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To: MEG33
That is what was said about homosexuality.
162 posted on 06/11/2003 4:54:15 PM PDT by mlmr (The chickens always come home to roost........unless they are eaten by the racoons.)
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To: Kevin Curry
Hey, whatdoyaknow KC? It wasn't even a week from the last thread where we predicted the pervert activists next agenda item.
163 posted on 06/11/2003 4:56:20 PM PDT by ApesForEvolution ("The only way evil triumphs is if good men do nothing" E. Burke)
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To: saramundee
I have a close family member that I have recommended get "voluntary" therapy.

I've never met a gay or lesbian that wasn't dysfunctional in many ways and I've been regularly exposed to the local homosexual community since I was 12 years old. I've seen many of the relationships first hand. Homosexuality is just 1 symptom of complex unresloved problems.

Loving someone means you want the best life possible for them. Sometimes that involves personal responsiblity on their part instead of just protesting the APA and society so we can all "pretend" nothing is wrong.

This is our society's problem. First we condone all hetero/sexual disorders so how could we condemn yet another. They are still hetero (all homosapiens reproduce heterosexually) but a symptom of their problems is being attracted to the same sex.

The fact remains that in 1973 they removed Homophilia because they believed it would help lessen the stigma not because they had any scientific studies that supported their socio/political beliefs.
164 posted on 06/11/2003 5:40:42 PM PDT by kuma
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To: Qwerty
Ok.. then address which rights of these collective individuals are being violated by private consensual adult sodomy.

The law is being violated whether it be consensual a violation or not and homosexuals don’t have that right in many states. What rights of consensual incestuals are being violated through same-sex incest? The drug user, the bestial and his private property…???

As a side note, can you go through a single thread without saying "sophistry"?

Sure, I do it all the time, funny how it usually comes up when “debating” you?

See my earlier posts. We can go around on this all day.

Bullogna, you’ve NEVER offered one bit of credible logic supporting why the 9th isn’t at the mercy of the 10th. I’d be happy to give you Madison’s and Jefferson's oppinion against your incredible piece of logic “9th amendment hint” if I thought you’d bother heeding our founding fathers take on it.

More BS from you. AND... now you pretend to know what sexual practices I engage in? Quit thinking about what I get up to, Clint.

Eww…I’d rather not, but unlike a normal mentally healthy person (Heterosexual), sex is something they do. To the mentally ill person proclaiming to be ('Homosexual'), sex SODOMY is what they are; to pretend your perversion isn’t sodomy is laughable.

On to what you think the government should busy itself with and has an interest in...

Misdemeanor fines are fine by me when those who practice perversion are found. The government (the people) wants to protect our society from those who pervert and seek to negatively change it.

Disagree, except for pedophilia and euthanasia.. but those arguments are for another time. Try to stick to a single topic.

Actually they are exactly the same arguments for homosexuality, if you’re going to make it based on consent then don’t be a hypocrite.

Ad hominem means instead of debating the points of the argument, you debate characteristics of your opponent.

Boy talk about sticking to the subject, ad hominem is prejudice of character, irrational attack, AKA lies…Try looking up the word in your dictionary.

No, this thread as titled is about lifting pedophilia from the list of mental illnesses.

It’s about paraphilic disorder to which pedophilia is ONLY one of many including homosexuality. If you’d bother reading past the title maybe you’d be better prepared.

It incorrectly states that the psychiatric association is trying to lift the taboo, but anyway. it isn't about homosexuality.

It’s coming up for debate at he next APA convention. Homosexuals are lobbying to remove gender identity disorder (a paraphilia) from the DSM, paraphilic disorders often have more than one syndrome afflicting a person, homosexuals often have multiple paraphilia's including their disorder of homosexuality. This is all part of the homosexual agenda, to say any less Is laughable.

So again.. If you want to argue about homosexuality, either mail me or keep it on a thread about homosexuality.

As long as you keep making erroneous public statements there’s not need, you might as well get use to it. Should you ever want to talk about leaving your pathology for any reason I'm always willing to help, just Freepmail me..

165 posted on 06/11/2003 6:32:45 PM PDT by Clint N. Suhks
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To: kattracks

I am speechless..

Can bestiality be far behind?

Head Shrinker: "No! there's nothin wrong with ole' Bob, he just likes to rape sheep. He's as normal as anyone else.. Perfectly fit to be a boy scout leader in my professional opinion.. "

166 posted on 06/11/2003 6:50:08 PM PDT by Jhoffa_ (Your Momma SO FAT, when she wear a "Malcom X" tee shirt, helecopters land on her back)
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To: Jhoffa_
PS: In case no one noticed.. That second paragraph that's quoted up there is dangerously close to normalizing rape.

Read it again, with that thought in mind and see what you think.

This is completely unacceptable and cannot be allowed to be foisted off on gullable Americans as some kind of "scientific breakthrough" or something..

167 posted on 06/11/2003 6:52:54 PM PDT by Jhoffa_ (Your Momma SO FAT, when she wear a "Malcom X" tee shirt, helecopters land on her back)
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To: George W. Bush
{psychiatrists have argued that there is little or no proof that sex with adults is necessarily harmful to minors. Indeed, they have argued that many sexually molested children later look back on their experience as positive}

Unfortunately judges and law enforcement are beginning to believe these ideas, especially when it comes to female public school teachers having affairs with male teen students. Often, judges give these female sex offenders lighter sentences than their male counterparts. The media all too often treats such stories as sensational soap opera stories. Given society's attitudes toward these cases, it shall be a matter of time before men, both straight & gay, demand the same rights as these female sex offender teachers.

168 posted on 06/11/2003 6:58:26 PM PDT by Kuksool
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Comment #169 Removed by Moderator

To: kuma
The fact remains that in 1973 they removed Homophilia because they believed it would help lessen the stigma not because they had any scientific studies that supported their socio/political beliefs. I think they abandoned their stance on homosexuality because they abandoned Freud's theory about it. Since homosexuality did not respond to their treatments, they denied that it was a mental illness.
170 posted on 06/11/2003 7:11:53 PM PDT by RobbyS
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To: saramundee
**I don't know the people you've been around but dysfunction is a personality disorder not a symptom of homosexuality.**
Homosexuality is an symptom of dysfunction.

1 out of 2 gay men will contract AIDS in their lifetime. It has everything to do with the vulnerabilities of anal intercourse.

Your son is going to face a lifetime of the gay lifestyle.
Please read this article and find out what is in store for him.

If you actually read the studies in this article, many of which were conducted by gay activists themselves during the height of AIDS awareness campaigns, please ask yourself honestly if you want this life for your son. That or at least allow your son to read it and make critical life decisions.

After reading many of these articles out of concern for family & friends, I would be in tears if one of my two sons ever faced that life.

As far as my life expierences are concerned, I've been not just aware of the outward public life but the very private personal lives. Being in a gay/lesbian bar at the age of 15 was a real eye-opener for me. That is just one experience out of many.
171 posted on 06/11/2003 7:43:05 PM PDT by kuma
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To: from occupied ga; Kevin Curry
Still waiting for a reply from KC? No surprise. He's just a troll trying to divide the Republican big tent. He and a few other DU-wannabes hop on here to slam Libertarians so the Dems have a chance at winning an election.

I found this thread through his forum link, and no surprise there. Any time there's a thread on here talking about pedophilia or some other perversity, he's on it. It's like a sexual weirdo thread checklist--but he inevitably justifies his constant presence there by discussing his personal theory that "Libertarians are behind it all!"

His interest in lewd and just plain immoral sexual practices sure is indicative of something--repression. Projecting that way is just plain sad. I certainly wouldn't recommend he go visit a member of the APA--they'll tell him he's normal. Thank God, though, that he's repressing his desires, because whatever he's got locked in that sick head of his is just too perverse to be let out.

I just hope it's not locked in your basement, too, Mr. Gumb, er, Curry.
172 posted on 06/11/2003 7:43:19 PM PDT by LibertarianInExile ("It puts the lotion on its skin or else it gets the hose again." - Buffalo Kevin)
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To: Lazamataz
Well--Satan's a very neatly-fitting theory/actuality, ain'a?
173 posted on 06/11/2003 7:43:30 PM PDT by ninenot (Joe McCarthy was RIGHT, but Drank Too Much)
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To: saramundee
John Maynard Keynes was a homosexual, so who will ever claim that homosexuality makes one academically or even socially disabled. That does not mean that it is wrong, as is today so often claimed, to classify homosexual behavior as sexual deviance. Even in societies where, say pederasty, is social acceptable, it is circumscribed by well-defined rules of behavior. Socrates may have liked boys, but he never took one as a wife. One of his brightest students, Alcibiades, was scorned because he insisted on sleeping with grown men. In other words, bisexuality was normal, but not the behavior that one observes in San Francisco or "homosexual marriage." Since the purpose of marriage is to produce children, any Greek who stablished a household with his male lover would be regarded as an eccentric. Pederastic relationship had an educational function that--I dare say-homosexual scoutmasters would like to introducew to American society. But these ended when the "pupil" grew a full beard.
174 posted on 06/11/2003 7:55:37 PM PDT by RobbyS
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To: MEG33
"Not going to way,no how~!!"

Don't be so sure about that.. it's all about who is in power ... and their agenda.

175 posted on 06/11/2003 11:41:19 PM PDT by Zipporah
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To: Labyrinthos
I agree .. I have a friend whose father-in-law sexually abused his own granddaughter.. he got NO jail time and had to go to therapy.. that was IT..nothing more. And a side thought.. and hey if it comes to fruition, this will save the Catholic church a lot of money..
176 posted on 06/11/2003 11:48:30 PM PDT by Zipporah
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To: murdoog
"You left out "fabulous"

Drat my incompetence.
177 posted on 06/11/2003 11:58:13 PM PDT by dsc
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To: Qwerty
You know? This is something that turns my stomach, but I do have to admit that I was wrong in the first post I made. Taking this off as a mental illness, gives those scumbags less of a chance of getting out, or off, due to claiming mental illness.

So, thank you for replying and getting me to thinking about this more! :o)
178 posted on 06/12/2003 12:03:39 AM PDT by Teetop (Don't go around saying the world owes you a living. The world owes you nothing. It was here first.)
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To: RobbyS
"John Maynard Keynes was a homosexual, so who will ever claim that homosexuality makes one academically or even socially disabled."

Not a good example, in my book.

Japan has been trying to pull themselves out of depression using Keynesian economics for about 15 years now, and it just keeps getting worse. Keynes' economic theories, IMO, were as disordered as his sexuality.

If only they had heard of Mises and Hayek...
179 posted on 06/12/2003 12:20:36 AM PDT by dsc
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To: saramundee
"I do not know any gay people who are mentally disturbed."

You don't know any that aren't.

The manifestation of disordered behavior indicates the presence of the disorder. Homosexual behavior is disordered.
180 posted on 06/12/2003 12:22:11 AM PDT by dsc
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