Mark Steyn: IN THE ABSENCE OF GUNS -

The Spectator - UK - SteynOnline ^ | June, 2003 | Mark Steyn

[wardaddy]

Nice....why are my synapses slowing down?

damn...I was witty once.

[ProudGOP]

Call me crazy but I value life more than property.

You aren't crazy, you are a fool.

They will take your life first, then they will take your property.

But hold on to your platitudes.

[supercat]

Call me crazy but I value life more than property.

So do I. On the other hand, if a thief decides he values his life less than someone else's property, that's the thief's decision--not the property owner's.

[Defiant]

I don't know about your synapses, but wouldn't it be nice to see Mark Steyn debate that fat moron Al Franken? It would be the Franken-Steyn death match.

[herewego]

you misunderstand my well written bro-
Dr. Quincy will find them where they lie, or have layed.
230 gr. hollowpoints only begin the dance. from there we move to multiple .308 Winns for effect ;).

[Travis McGee]

Wish I could write like that.

Don't we all!

[Travis McGee]

Sorry, I was not clear. Never shoot to wound = shoot to kill, and leave em for Quincey.

[szweig]

BIG PICTURE --- What has happened to make Britain abandon the concept of self-defense?? I do not understand this. It makes no sense...SSZ

[herewego]

to hell with Quincy, if you ever find yourself in Georgia,
you're more than welcome to a visit with excellent pig bbq
and a day of fun shootin'!

[budwiesest]

Your property and your life are intertwined. Allowing someone to take property in an attempt to save life is to say that all of the effort put into acquiring such was without value.

Having had a couple of occasions where I was seperated from personal property in order to escape injury or death, all I can say is that, had I been armed appropiately I would have no hesitation at all with using deadly force to prevent any and all robbery attempts. Besides, having had a gun shoved in my face and a rather large knife held up to my throat I am not certain that I was the last to experience this unique form of property transfer. What only remains a mystery to me are the outcomes of those who more than likely suffered a similar fate later at the hands of these guys.

There are some sick sobs out there whose lives were spared by such thinking as yours and untold innocents may pay dearly for such. Sleep well, if you can.

[Squantos]

Old drunk black man in yer dorm room........Does the old joke about never going to bed with an ugly woman but waking up with many apply here or was it really an old black man ?;O)

As to Romeo he'll wish I'd just shot him and gotten it over with. The Chase story should grow leg's WD........

Stay Safe !!

BTW I just got the monocle joke....one eye....hardy har har har ! Good One !

[Skywalk]

Excellent question.

Though I'm not sure, I would guess a lot of this garbage is intimately connected to gun control itself.

See, when gun control(and England had it before 96) fails to curtail the occurrence of crimes, the next "reasonable" step is to try to 'control' weapons of any kind. Once guns become suspect, all weapons will eventually be viewed as "offensive" in nature.

Compound that with propaganda like "what use do you have for a gun/bat/knife/pepper spray?" and the corollary "only criminals have XYZ" and you get laws that prevent the victims from fighting back.

It's quite a digusting turn of events, to be sure. We can only hope that the English will find the strength to fight for the restoration of the rights of Englishmen.

[pragmatic_asian]

Uh, did y'all actually read my post before replying? I merely said that I would try to stop a criminal before resorting to killing them. While I wouldn't automatically shoot someone, as it seems most people in this thread would, obviously there are scenarios where I would do so. The only value to shooting someone in your house if you aren't threatened with imminent harm is that you will go to jail for murder in the most states. Obviously, I will defend myself and loved ones if threatened. And since I'll be the one holding a gun (instead of a platitude), I'll be the one dictating choices to whoever breaks in.

I woke to a kid (couldn't have been more than 15 years old) breaking into my apartment when I was at grad school. I held him for the police with my fencing saber. He wasn't going to grab my stereo or anyone's child some other night but he didn't have to die for that to happen. If I had simply shot him like you two would've done, I would still be in jail right now.

[patton]

Don't know about "most states", but here in VA you would never have been charged.

[SevenDaysInMay]

Perps' violence can turn on in a second. One will never know the perps' drug stupor, rage, gang initiation ritual, or plan, if any.

I know of a slightly built asian who was stripped ready for prostate pounding, but for a random turning car's headlights putting the pecker perp on center stage.

I knew a young victim of late night burglery turned rape, who after the initial triple threat assaults, had her face and breasts and ribs crushed by the brick she used as a "security" door stop. Her blood dripped from her ceiling. Perp ... never caught. She went nuts.

Would you let a molester fondle, strip, or rape your lady? Child, girl or boy? Would you let first contact occure without your physical intervention? Would you let one or more perps tie you down as they have their way with her, perhaps you too, as you watch - before you are then both shot or quietly slashed ear to ear? When you can not tell what perps will do, why would you not act? Unarmed?

The FBI's 7 yard threat rule stands, off property. However, anyone on property 30 minutes after sundown is fair game. Pursuant to established law, one can assume the trespassing perp is armed and a mortal threat or thief of valuable property.

Recently I had unattended, stashed in the brush tools used in gathering 150-400# oak trunk for firewood from a neighbor's front yard. Stolen near dusk - a 3' bow saw and 6' prybar - both are quite deadly weapons in their own right. Had I come around the corner while they were being stolen, I would had acted to retrieve my property from thusly deadly armed criminals - not waiting for further confirmation of other weapons. Yes, sick of this permanent crime wave social cancer, I would fight over $50 tools (MY tools): never bring just a hand truck to a saw blade and steel spear fight.

[harpseal]

I merely said that I would try to stop a criminal before resorting to killing them.

I hope you are implying uusing a verbal order to stop and asuume a prone position. Further that any failure to absolutely and immediately follow commands be met with gunfire otherwise you are being very very foolish. Any physical contact including using handcuffs to subdue the individual in question is a risk for medical reasons if no other.

Even the above situation has many uneccessary risks for yourself and your family.

However if you are referring to having your entire family inn a safe room and not going alone to clear the house then you may be making a tactically sound decision. House clearing is a dangerous operation at all times even for a team of individuals. (I know unless one has lots of fragmentation grenades but those also hacve risks.)

[BlueLancer]

"Call me crazy but I value life more than property. "

I see ... and, of course, you know, at the time that he breaks into your house, that he's only there for the property. Must be nice to be psychic.

By the time that you've figured out that he's there to rape, kill, and THEN rob you and your family, it's too late to ask him for permission to go and get your gun.

It's a good thing that, here in Texas, the law is that anyone found on your property after dark can, after becoming one with the ambient air temperature, be found there in the morning as well

[ProudGOP]

The only value to shooting someone in your house if you aren't threatened with imminent harm is that you will go to jail for murder in the most states.

The act of breaking into someone's house is a threatening act.

And since I'll be the one holding a gun (instead of a platitude), I'll be the one dictating choices to whoever breaks in.

Good luck. I hope you have time to weigh all the evidence and decide what to do.

If I had simply shot him like you two would've done, I would still be in jail right now.

Not in Texas, which is where I live. That is, unless you do something stupid like shoot him in the back while he is running away.

[tet68]

Your property and your life are intertwined. Allowing someone to take property in an attempt to save life is to say that all of the effort put into acquiring such was without value.

People have lost sight of the fact that the right to hold
property and it's defense were the cornerstone of American ideals.

Certainly for the first half of our history killing a armed robber was considered a civic duty.