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UV light may have sparked life on Earth
NewScientist.com ^ | May 28, 2003

Posted on 05/29/2003 4:35:41 PM PDT by StupidQuestions

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Yes, I am new to FR. I've enjoyed your discussions about evolution and creation for years and couldn't believe no one posted this earlier. I have no firm beliefs about how life began ... or even where life began. I do believe this research will prompt an interesting discussion however.
1 posted on 05/29/2003 4:35:42 PM PDT by StupidQuestions
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To: VadeRetro; jennyp; Junior; longshadow; *crevo_list; RadioAstronomer; Scully; Piltdown_Woman; ...
Ping. [This ping list is for the evolution side of evolution threads, and sometimes for other science topics. FReepmail me to be added or dropped.]
2 posted on 05/29/2003 4:39:22 PM PDT by PatrickHenry (Idiots are on "virtual ignore," and you know exactly who you are.)
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To: StupidQuestions
WOOHOO, now we can talk abiogenesis.

OK, Creos, here's your chance to talk about abiogenesis without getting wiped off the table for not understanding evolution.

THIS IS ABIOGENESIS, the thing you guys always want to talk about, so, LET'S TALK ABOUT IT!!!
3 posted on 05/29/2003 4:42:18 PM PDT by Aric2000 (Are you on Grampa Dave's team? I am!! $5 a month is all it takes, come join!!!)
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To: StupidQuestions
Sagan was in the middle of the origin of life research. Not central, just there. He knew all the participants, went to their conferences, fed off them. Somewhere along the line he mentioned that given a bottle with the appropriate chemicals in it and a source of energy: heat, lightning, UV, extreme pressure, whatever provides a chemical kick, the complex chemicals of life form naturally. UV wavelengths are in the key energy range to have effect on chemical bonds. All this speculation was back around the time of the Viking Mars search-for-life landers. Early 70s.
4 posted on 05/29/2003 4:46:59 PM PDT by RightWhale (gazing at shadows)
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To: RightWhale
For a minute I saw Satan, not Sagan, and thought geez, what the heck is up with rightwhale? LOL ;)

Yeah, I saw some of that stuff too, he talked about it in some of his books. Very interesting reading.
5 posted on 05/29/2003 4:53:06 PM PDT by Aric2000 (Are you on Grampa Dave's team? I am!! $5 a month is all it takes, come join!!!)
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To: StupidQuestions
Bravo on a great first post!
6 posted on 05/29/2003 4:53:09 PM PDT by NewYorker
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To: Aric2000
We must put to bed the hoary notion that Louis Pasteur "proved" that life cannot arise from non-living material. Instead, what he disproved, was the very different idea floading around in his day, called Spontaneous Generation. Contrary to the endless lies found on varous creationist websites (hideous centers of ignorance and duplicity), Pasteur never proved (and never attempted to prove) anything about the ultimate origin of life on earth.
7 posted on 05/29/2003 4:53:54 PM PDT by PatrickHenry (Idiots are on "virtual ignore," and you know exactly who you are.)
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To: All
Finally they get it right.

The first life on earth started converting what chemicals were in the air and ground into the beginnings of our atmosphere. UV light had nothing to stop it. It stimulated chemical reactions which were part of the original creation of life.

Later, a new type of creature, very similar to the first, evolved which was able to put more into the atmosphere. It had a built-in engine or furnace and was more efficient. That first creature (cell) still exists, and the second one.... Well, them are us. We are made up of the second creatures.

8 posted on 05/29/2003 4:54:59 PM PDT by UCANSEE2
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To: Aric2000; StupidQuestions
"yikes" (Sam notes the impending barroom brawl and takes his beer to another room.) Bye!
9 posted on 05/29/2003 5:00:29 PM PDT by sam_paine
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To: sam_paine
Just watch through the glass, and of course toss a punch or 2 yourself, AFTER you put your beer down somewhere safe of course.
10 posted on 05/29/2003 5:02:30 PM PDT by Aric2000 (Are you on Grampa Dave's team? I am!! $5 a month is all it takes, come join!!!)
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To: PatrickHenry
Pasteur never started a thread and watched for the spontaneous arrival of vermin.
11 posted on 05/29/2003 5:12:33 PM PDT by js1138
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To: StupidQuestions
Do chemicals have willpower and determination? Do they 'strive' to overcome obstacles? Are some chemicals heroes? Are some underachievers?

There are scientists all over the world who have said time and time again that the formation of even the building blocks of life is thermodynamically unfavorable and require a perceived selective advantage in order to form. I don't believe that you can apply natural selection to chemicals. So right out of the gate there are problems for the evolutionist.

And from a favorite website of mine:

In the pantheistic world view of the evolutionist, the fires of destruction are the wombs of life. Radiation, asteroids, collisions, and other devastating agents are our friends: they gave us the beautiful web of life we have today. Wonder how they feel about terrorism.

FRegards, MM

12 posted on 05/29/2003 5:18:28 PM PDT by Michael_Michaelangelo
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To: Michael_Michaelangelo
Okay! I have my super heavy duty flame-proof titanium body armor on, wolves, so have at it!
13 posted on 05/29/2003 5:19:56 PM PDT by Michael_Michaelangelo
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To: StupidQuestions
I descended from pond scum because UV light shown on pond scum? I have two questions. where did pond scum come from? Where did UV light come from?
14 posted on 05/29/2003 5:24:49 PM PDT by c-b 1
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To: Michael_Michaelangelo
Do chemicals have willpower and determination?

They obviously have some of the capability to sustain these soulful attributes.

15 posted on 05/29/2003 5:24:50 PM PDT by RightWhale (gazing at shadows)
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To: Michael_Michaelangelo
In an Anthropic Universe, every aspect might be viewed as having the will and determination to produce life.
16 posted on 05/29/2003 5:28:00 PM PDT by StupidQuestions
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To: StupidQuestions
Your admirable thread has caught a fatal disease.
17 posted on 05/29/2003 5:43:42 PM PDT by js1138
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To: StupidQuestions
I have no problem with that notion. You are speaking of the Anthropic Principles?

Here's a quote I have saved from Paul C.W. Davies, Physicist and Professor of Natural Philosophy, University of Adelaide, AU.:

"The temptation to believe that the Universe is the product of some sort of design, a manifestation of subtle aesthetic and mathematical judgement, is overwhelming. The belief that there is "something behind it all" is one that I personally share with, I suspect, a majority of physicists" -1983

FRegards, MM

18 posted on 05/29/2003 5:45:43 PM PDT by Michael_Michaelangelo
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To: Aric2000
Unanimated material.

Becomes.

Animated material.

The question regarding abiogenesis, does life require an animator or does nature have the capacity to animate?
19 posted on 05/29/2003 5:48:01 PM PDT by bondserv
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To: StupidQuestions
I'm not too sure how life began. I wasn't there when it happened.

I figure I'll find out someday. If I don't... that means there is nothing else, so it just doesn't matter anyway, does it?

I think I've achieved a certain peace on the subject.

Now, to pop some corn and kick up my feet... :-)
20 posted on 05/29/2003 5:52:09 PM PDT by Ramius
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