Mom 'calm' in call to 911 - diaries, Bible sought to shed light on her thoughts, boys' deaths

The Dallas Morning News ^ | May 12, 2003 | By LEE HANCOCK / The Dallas Morning News

[Lijahsbubbe]

If she was schizophrenic or depressed she could have been very paranoid about her children playing anywhere. I'm glad to see there are some on this forum who believe that psychosis is real. I was one of those people who did not believe it really happened until a family member became mentally ill. It's easier with a violent crime like this if there is a villain to hate and punish. It's only natural for us to want justice and to hate the person who could murder so brutally, especially children. However, with mental illness it doesn't give a neat and tidy ending. Not if you understand the nature of it. The family is left to deal with the death of innocents, and to grieve for the member who is mentally ill.

Then you have the cases where the insanity defense is abused. People become cynical. It's all very sad.

[Lijahsbubbe]

I am so glad you're doing well! God bless you!

[MineralMan]

http://www.firstassemblyofgod-tyler.com/home.htm


Check here. I believe this is the church in question.

[MineralMan]

"Then you have the cases where the insanity defense is abused. People become cynical. It's all very sad."

Yes, there are many such cases. Sadly, they interfere with real cases where insanity causes the crime. Hopefully, if that's the case here, treatment will be instituted.

[Poohbah]

If she was truly schizophrenic, almost anything could have set her off.

If she wasn't...the usual suspects in the hellfire & brimstone community have a lot to answer for.

It's been a cliche of Christian radio for the past 30 years that "We are living in the End Times."

Aren't the End Times supposed to END at some time?

[MineralMan]

"I wonder if these clerics actually believe they're going to scare people into heaven."

Well, actually, I suspect that the idea is to scare the Hell out of them. (humor intended)

[MineralMan]

"It's been a cliche of Christian radio for the past 30 years that "We are living in the End Times."
"

Oddly enough, if you look into the history of women who kill their children like this, you often find what is termed "an excess of religious zeal," along with underlying mental disorders.

I can see that as a possibility here. The A of G churches tend to be preachers of doom, for sure, with Armageddon just around the corner at all times. A mentally-ill person can easily take such preachings to heart and do something that, in their minds, would "spare their children."

While I do not know the details of this case yet, I'd be willing to bet that something on that order is involved here, and it's so sad. Perhaps with appropriate medication, these children would still be alive. If that's the case, then it's a double tragedy.

[MinuteGal]

It wasn't an argument, just an observation. I've never been to an "end times are around the corner and a ball of fire is coming soon" church....and never would set foot in one.

I've always been a member of the conservative Missouri Synod Lutheran church. We don't take kindly to hysterical apocalyptic rants from the pulpit about the end of the world.

Our pastors do prepare us for the day we meet our maker, but with faith, hope and calm, not dire, emotional and scary threats of an impending Armageddon.

Leni

[MattGarrett]

There has GOT to be an ultimate punishment to fit a heanous crime such as this. Thank god we have the death penalty.

[bytheBook]

Some personalities do not cope well with the 'End Time' teachings of churches such as the A of G. My ex-husband starting attending one of these churches and became rather obsessed with the end of the world. It seemed to trigger his paranoia as he then moved on to believing that I was trying to kill both him and our children. He claimed that a 'prophet' in the church was warning him. It was all very weird. He was unable to convince the court that I was dangerous but I am now divorced and it has taken our three small children a while to see through all of the frightening things that their father has told them both about the impending end of the world and their 'potential serial killer' mother. By the way, he also believes in aliens and that just about everyone is out to get him.

[MineralMan]

"There has GOT to be an ultimate punishment to fit a heanous crime such as this. Thank god we have the death penalty."

It is truly a horrifying situation. However, if this woman is mentally ill, thank goodness we have the mercy not to kill those who are insane. They need our pity, not our anger. If, as I suspect, this woman acted out of some delusion, perhaps even a religious delusion, the society will not kill her, but treat her for her illness.

As the deity you apparently believe in was supposed to say, "Vengeance is mine." It is not our place to judge, according to the Bible.

For myself, as a non-Christian, I simply have compassion for those who have their thinking go haywire from mental illness. It is a tragedy that these children are dead, and a tragedy that a woman could be so ill that she would do such a thing.

If you read some of the other stories here, she apparently told the police that "God" had told her to do this thing. She was delusional. I hope the good people of Texas will have the compassion to treat the woman's apparent illness, and not just execute her if she is mentally ill.

If you believe in God, then you must listen to His words, when he tells you not to judge.

[MineralMan]

"Some personalities do not cope well with the 'End Time' teachings of churches such as the A of G. My ex-husband starting attending one of these churches and became rather obsessed with the end of the world. It seemed to trigger his paranoia as he then moved on to believing that I was trying to kill both him and our children. "

How horrifying for you. I'm sure, though, that the church itself was not teaching him this: it was part of an underlying mental illness, I'm sure.

Thank goodness you are out of the situation.

[kuma]

She could have been planning this for a long time. I can understand why the family's church would stand behind the victims (father & sons) but they should be telling the murderer to repent.

You cannot have the seal of the Spirit and be a murderer at the same time. Murderers and a long list of others "...such as these do not belong to Christ"

[SerpentDove]

The death penalty is supported in both the Old and New Testaments. You probably know that, just bringing it up again.

[bytheBook]

While I do not believe that the Pastor was in any way responsible for my husband's delusions I became increasingly concerned by the things that the so-called 'prophet' at this church was suggesting. I fear that emphasis on speaking in tongues, modern day gifts of prophecy, and faith healing tend to attract some of the less stable members of our society.

[kuma]

Oh boy. Here we go. Even though the article states that the police already investigated the sermons and that she was not on any medications and that there was no indication of any problems by the people who knew her best:

1. The father is getting blamed for being asleep at night. Some people sleep through anything. Even though she didn't exhibit unusual behavior I suppose all men should make sure their wives are never alone with the children "just in case".

2. The pastor, her brother-in-law, as far as I can tell didn't write up the plans.

I keep waiting for it to dawn on anybody that maybe she had this planned. Just because you go to church does not exclude you from murderous thoughts.

3. Oh and now a particular denomination is now responsible also spreading it all over the US.

So much for the Christian concept of people being responsible for their actions.

[Mustang]

Good retort BR!

I maybe slipping into a panoptic field of cow patties, but...imho, cause & effect affects this kind of horror.

One could ask....how could this atrocity happen? Forget the drugs she should'a taken or the psyco-babble excuses.

He's my take. An unquestioned and blind acceptance of "any" rigid religiosity will fail the seeker. It's akin to putting a skateboarder on the Cross-Bronx Expressway, telling'em the pot-holes are no big deal.

I confess and acknowledge, as an ex-altar boy and 'fallen' Catholic,(of many moons ago), to find spirituality, peace and calm in a Higher Power who offers comfort, more to my liking...I pray, hope the prayer's are being heard, BUT, please...I don't think I'll be getting "voices" back. At least while I'm still wearing this mortal coil.

Mustang sends from "Malpaso News"..

[Mustang]

BTW, MM...I neglected to mention prior. Your above replys reminded me of a phrase we had in the Navy, i.e,:

"Be careful now, you're making too much sense"

Your point of view is well taken. Mustang sends from "Malpaso News"

[Rainmist]

I am a mother of two, and actually taking your child's life is a line a majority of us would never cross. People who cross this line have got to be psychotic. They have to be. How could you be sane and do something like this ??? There's no way.

[John H K]

I did do a search on Google, and discovered that many Assembly of God ministers advise against the use of psychiatric drugs. It's possible that this church was on which discouraged such use. It's also possible that the use of such drugs might well have saved the lives of these children.

Yep.

There's a tremendous amount of stupidity floating around about antidepressants, and about other psychiatric drugs (and interesting that my old friend "Mabelkitty" as usual is insatiable in her desire to find idiotic positions to support). One interesting thing is that a fanatical crusade against psychiatric meds is a common element of fringe religious groups all the way from some fundie Christians to nutballs like the Scientologists.

I bet if you looked into the statistics, people on heart medication are far more likely to die of heart attacks.

Ergo, isn't it clear that heart medication causes heart attacks?

The rabid anti-antidepressant lobby follows this logic. Unfortunately, people with psychotic problems may not have those problems recognized early enough, and they'll be started off with antidepressants, do something violent and horrible, and the antidepressants will be blamed (when in reality the problem was the person should have been on powerful ANTIPSYCHOTIC drugs).

This woman is clearly insane, likely due to a chemical inbalance. She wasn't responsible for her actions.

People are very resistant to thinking about the chemical functioning of their brains. With a fundamental chemical problem like this your free will is gone.

She still needs to be locked up in a facility for the criminally insane for the rest of her life, though.