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When Clones Are Outlawed, Only Outlaws Will Have Clones
Sierra Times ^ | April 24, 2003 | J. Neil Schulman

Posted on 04/24/2003 12:24:35 PM PDT by J. Neil Schulman

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1 posted on 04/24/2003 12:24:35 PM PDT by J. Neil Schulman
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Comment #2 Removed by Moderator

To: J. Neil Schulman
Mr. Schulman,

Thank you for posting this. I wholeheartedly agree with you on this issue.

Never before have I seen such hatred for science and irrational fear dominate the mainstream. It seems like the only science fiction people are consulting is Attack of the Clones. Of course, we're nowhere near being able to breed and train thousands or millions of clones for an army and in a world where that is possible, we'll have other very important concerns. It also is quite obvious that if a Hitler or Stalin were in power and could deter an attack, they would breed such an army ANYWAY, despite silly international debates about the matter.

I am quite upset when I think of the millions of people that would be sentenced to die so that some politician can assuage his or the public's fear of a technological breakthrough. I see, it's OK to have weapons that can annihilate millions of people, but it's not OK to even research duplicating human genetic material.

Outlaws and rogue states will do as rogue states and outlaws do, banning cloning only helps them. I'm still trying to see where the fear is coming from on this issue. I think, sadly, it boils down to two things:

1)Fear of clone armies--really, I think this is the main fear, sadly.

2)People having too much "choice" with life. Just as there are people who don't think you should get plastic surgery EVER, even if you were born with a misshapen nose, there will be those who think we must "accept" whatever fate assigned to us by the Creator. This ignores the fact that nearly every aspect of modern civilization is a refusal to accept our original fates.
3 posted on 04/24/2003 12:39:32 PM PDT by Skywalk
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To: J. Neil Schulman
I agree that politicians score low in the thinking things out catagory. Cloning an adult to create a genetically exact person seems wrong and evolutionarily dangerous.

Cloning an organ when needed makes sense. Storing stem cells makes sense. Creating a cloned person to create an organ donor is not acceptable.
4 posted on 04/24/2003 12:58:13 PM PDT by playball0 (Fortune favors the bold)
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To: Skywalk
My Kobe Tai clone is on back order.
5 posted on 04/24/2003 1:05:26 PM PDT by ASA Vet ("Those who know, don't talk. Those who talk, don't know." (I'm in the 2nd group.))
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To: ASA Vet
Kobe Tai?

Hmm, if you're going down that road, I think(at this stage) I'd prefer a young clone of Asia Carrera and one of Tera Patrick.

Is there a bulk catalog service for this kind of thing, because maybe I need to stock up on Kelly Hu and Joy Dumandan clones too.
6 posted on 04/24/2003 1:10:02 PM PDT by Skywalk
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To: J. Neil Schulman
In other countries, people are murdered to cannibalize their organs and sell them to the highest bidder on the black market.

BS meter on high...what about blood-typing, organ matching, transport, storage, operating facilities, willing doctors? If I have the bucks for this, am I really gonna have them kidnap a local and swipe his kidney?

7 posted on 04/24/2003 1:47:44 PM PDT by IYAS9YAS (Go Fast, Turn Left!)
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To: ASA Vet
Only one ??
8 posted on 04/24/2003 2:12:41 PM PDT by MD_Willington_1976
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To: Skywalk
I am not afraid of a cloned army. I believe it to be a fool's errand, destined to failure, because there is no way to control the process the way a totalitarian leader would want it.
9 posted on 04/24/2003 2:23:02 PM PDT by playball0 (Fortune favors the bold)
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To: J. Neil Schulman
The problem with "cloning organs" is that the only foreseeable technique for doing so is to create a human being solely for having a ready supply of spares.

What about that person's rights? "Sorry, X-110-56-3764, we need your liver. A real human being has priority over a spare parts bin."

10 posted on 04/24/2003 2:26:55 PM PDT by Poohbah (Crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of their women!)
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To: J. Neil Schulman
It will be the beginning of the end. Put anything you want to in the middle, the ending will horrific.
11 posted on 04/24/2003 2:31:58 PM PDT by John Lenin (Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy)
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To: Poohbah
Ah but what if they can remove the genetic instructions for "create brain?"

If they can clone a humanesque bag of organs, would that be more to your liking?

The brain is what makes us truly human, so if they can make cloned bags without brains(and other non-essential parts) I don't see the problem, though it would be grotesque.
12 posted on 04/24/2003 2:32:39 PM PDT by Skywalk
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To: Skywalk
I believe in cutting off stupid ideas before they get a chance to get started. Cloning is a stupid idea, if you didn't learn anything from Adolf Hitler what more can I say.
13 posted on 04/24/2003 2:35:24 PM PDT by John Lenin (Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy)
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To: Skywalk
The brain is what makes us truly human, so if they can make cloned bags without brains(and other non-essential parts) I don't see the problem, though it would be grotesque.

Your last sentence is either very funny or very chilling.

14 posted on 04/24/2003 2:37:15 PM PDT by Poohbah (Crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of their women!)
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To: John Lenin
And you, John Lenin, will be the arbiter of what is stupid and what is smart and/or righteous?

Glad to know, I'll run all my moral, financial and technical decisions by you from now on.
15 posted on 04/24/2003 2:40:26 PM PDT by Skywalk
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To: Poohbah
Hey, I didn't say it is pleasant, but nothing that involves surgery is pleasant. Have you seen those things on TLC or Discovery? It's disgusting, but the procedure itself would earn no condemnation except from the most extreme fanatics(the procedure being any that involves invasive surgery.)

My alternative, in the short run, would be preferable to cloning FULL humans right? After all, didn't some guy clone meat in a cylinder recently? It would be no different than that, and would be taken from YOUR genetic material.

16 posted on 04/24/2003 2:43:10 PM PDT by Skywalk
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To: Skywalk
I have to say that most of the arguments against organ cloning seem pretty arbitrary and capricious. Other than the "ick" factor (a natural but irrational reaction), most of the opposition seems to be based on fairly nebulous premises.
17 posted on 04/24/2003 2:44:00 PM PDT by tortoise
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To: John Lenin
What are we supposed to have learned from Adolph Hitler, in your view?

I thought it would be things like don't murder those who oppose you, don't make slaves out of free men, don't hate based on religion or ethnic grounds, don't scapegoat a minority, don't embrace totalitarianism or fascism, etc.


Apparently, it's don't clone human parts. LOL I wasn't aware that was a major lesson from history.
18 posted on 04/24/2003 2:45:13 PM PDT by Skywalk
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To: playball0
I am not afraid of a cloned army.

They might all be strong, fast, etc., and all look the same so uniforms would be overkill, but it ends there; each is a person with his own mind and no family. All would be orphans raised by the state, and some will be highly annoyed by that. Good luck trying to make an army out of that.

19 posted on 04/24/2003 2:48:14 PM PDT by RightWhale (Theorems link concepts; proofs establish links)
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To: Skywalk
My alternative, in the short run, would be preferable to cloning FULL humans right?

Wrong.

Deliberately tampering with a human being's DNA solely to be able to say "it isn't human, REALLY" is pretty despicable.

What happens if your instructions don't work properly, and you create a human being with a brain--even an atrophied vestige of a brain? Gosh, what the heck do you do? Throw it in the dumpster?

20 posted on 04/24/2003 2:48:52 PM PDT by Poohbah (Crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of their women!)
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