US Marines turn fire on civilians at the bridge of death (Should we believe this story?)

The Sunday Times ^ | March 30, 2003 | Mark Franchetti

[Travis McGee]

War is hell.

[Stavka2]

Worked with an E-7 training cadets, who was with the Rangers in Panama...same orders...any vehicle not promptly stopping at a check point was shot up...said they killed a bunch of civilians that first day or two.

[Stavka2]

You obviously never read any of the books published, with US consent, detailing various Vietnam battles...the writing was almost identicle in details.

[Dstorm]

This reads like a James Axler Deathlands Series Novel

[harpseal]

It is always sad when children are killed but I am presuming the Marines involved did what they needed to given the masquerade as civilians from some of Saddam's boys.

[Squantos]

These Iraqi animals that drag children, their's or not into harms way deserve the worst. In Somilia they used women and children in the same manner........

Stay Safe !

[steplock]

Do you believe this TALE?

I was curious to see how effective the past 30 years of left-wing propaganda has been. Fairly effective.

LESS THAN HALF of you believe that our American Marines are NOT murderers.

50% Believe that the Marines killed all those innocent civilians - FIVE of you think that Marines are Cold-Blooded Murderers - the rest convicted the Marines of homicide.

7 Replies were non-commital or replies did not reflect belief or disbelief.

BELIEVE these lies?

NO - Anti-American Story (12/38)

NautiNurse
parcel_of_rogues
TheLooseThread
Coop
The Great Satan
steplock
SGCOS
El Gato
Hatteras
Dstorm
miss marmelstein
Dstorm

YES - But I believe it was ok (14/38)
Badabing Badaboom
RAY
Polybius
King David
Freedom'sWorthIt
Flurry
cardinal4
Semper Vigilantis
HarryCaul
mikegi
HarryCaul
Alouette
JasonC
Travis McGee

YES - Marines are murderers (5/38)
expatpat
Hobey Baker
The Old Hoosier
Paradox
Stavka2

??? unable to determine (7/38)
Hacksaw
San Jacinto
MHGinTN
earonthief
tictoc
Terry Mross
Squantos

Half of you so-called freepers have been brainwashed by the left-wing extremists over the past 30 years into believing ALL what they say about the Marine Corps and the USA.

I would probably be correct in assuming that these same people (the 50%) if asked who was responsible for the Vietnam war would first think - REPUBLICANS - totally forgetting that Lyndon B. Johnson was the president totally responsible for the deaths of over 50,000 American lives. The left has convinced the world and most Americans that it was ALL Nixon's fault.

I am almost SICK at being an American after seeing these percentages - glad to see what half of you really feel about the Marines...

U.S.M.C. 1969 - 1981 3-PH

[Darksheare]

Doubt it.
The Fedeyeen were shooting civilians on a bridge at Basra.
British troops dashed onto teh bridge to literally drag a wounded woman from the bridge under fire.

So I'd say this story is pure BS.

[antidisestablishment]

The reporter's got a French surname. Obviously an agent provocateur...

[Freedom'sWorthIt]

Excuse me - but what I said was that in WWII - thousands of civilians were killed when we took on Hitler. There have been and will continue to be innocent Iraqi citizens killed by our allied forces (I was not saying whether I believed or did not believe this story - said it looked like biased reporting to me). The Iraqi's will see to it that we kill Iraqi citizens - as they have already - by forcing the innocent ones to fire on us - to fight us - by threatening to kill their families if we do not- or to kill them.

What I was saying is that this cannot be avoided in war. We know that our Marines or others fighting for "the right" would not knowingly mow down civilians. However, such deaths will happen and cannot be totally avoided, despite the efforts of all involved with the allies to do so. NOT because of US - but because of the IRAQI determination for that to take place.

I am skeptical of this report - but the fact of innocent Iraqi's dying in this conflict cannot be avoided.

Have you not read the opinions of those who are "inside" Iraq who don't care if they die - they want to be free!!! They want the WAR!

They KNOW they have been enslaved and brutalized - and even if it means being killed - most of them WANT the war to be free of Saddam.

It reminds me of a movie about the French resistance - who, when the Allies began bombing - ran out cheering and shouting for joy even with bombs falling all around them! They were cheering the allies on - even if it meant their death. They did not care! They KNEW (these brave ones - yes there were some in those days in France) that price had to be paid and were willing for it to be paid.

Don't be discouraged. Propaganda is propaganda. That is one thing the Iraqi's and their Communist Friends in America are very very good at.

[Coop]

You obviously never read any of the books published, with US consent, detailing various Vietnam battles...the writing was almost identicle in details.

Actually, I've read a few. What's your point? Are you saying this actually happened, or are you saying the author's a plagiarist?

[Darksheare]

The author ninja'd the lewt.

[The Old Hoosier]

Where did I say they were murderers? You REALLY need to chill out, dude.

It's clear that, from that Marine's own mouth, the woman he killed was not an "innocent civilian," but an illegal combatant taking part in the battle. And the reporter gave the Marine's name so that he could come back and dispute it later, if he didn't actually say those things. This isn't one of these unsourced stories, so that there's no way to verify what was said or done.

Besides, is it completely impossible for you to believe that Marines COULD murder people? Ever hear of My Lai? Or Bob Kerrey?

I don't think it happens on a regular basis, especially not with reporters around, but we did just have a dogface go fragging in the 101st. And the Marines where I live get into bar-fights on a fairly regular basis--including my own friends in the corps.

These things can and do happen, because yes, even U.S. Marines are human beings, not angels.

[Polybius]

My comment specifically referred to this incident:

A lorry filled with sacks of wheat made the fatal mistake of driving through US lines. The order was given to fire. Several AAVs pounded it with a barrage of machinegun fire, riddling the windscreen with at least 20 holes.

Are you saying that, in view of the Iraqi use of civilian vehicles, you would just sit there and watch a truck, filled with sacks of who knows what, simply ignore orders to stop and drive through your lines?

If you want everybody to believe that such an idiot would not be shot, you are living in a fantasy world.

Bad things happen in war. Civilians doing stupid things are shot and friendly forces are sometimes killed by "friendly fire". To claim that such things never happen is to deny reality.

[Paradox]

Hey, go f*ck yourself! I did NOT say the US Marines were murderers, I said it "sounded like "(which means what the article was saying, not neccessarily what I believed) they had unintentionally killed civilians. I didn't like some of the comments, but I understand that its WAR! I also said that the reporter no doubt looked for those kind of comments to bias his report.

Sheesh man, get a grip! Aw hell, I understand your passion and your anger. You must have misread my post..

[The Old Hoosier]

I get the impression that maybe 5 or 6 died. And I think that's what the Pentagon has said since then.

Just keep in mind that this reporter has to live with these guys day in and day out. Even if he writes things that paint them in a bad light, he's certainly not going to get away with lying outright.

[Darksheare]

I dunno, they let Mr Peter "They used Sarin in Laos" Arnett off pretty lightly.

[mikegi]

You need to take a gigantic chill pill (preferably, a suppository).

Exactly where in my reply did I say or imply that our Marines were MURDERERS? Where did I say or imply that we killed "all those innocent civilians"?

[JasonC]

Where is the belief in leftist propaganda, in believing there are dumb Iraqis having "Darwin Award" moments, like standing on balconies facing a firefight or driving fast toward a US position at night? Now all Iraqis are rocket scientists, is that it? Who is being gullible here?

[Alouette]

YES - But I believe it was ok

My comment specifically addressed one remark, allegedly made by a U.S. Marine corporal. I only explained the Marine's alleged "racist" remarks about Iraqis in a context that would render them understandable and appropriate.

There was nothing in my post to indicate that I believe the entire article to be absolutely factual. However, if you want to know my opinion before drawing your own conclusions, the article does read very much like a scene from a bad novel. I don't think that the author made up the whole thing out of his imagination, but I do believe that he embellished his narrative very much and also probably omitted critical facts in order to elicit a specific emotional reaction from the reader.

When you learn more of the "facts" maybe you should re-evaluate your assessment of the Freepers who have participated in this thread, rather than leading people on to jump to conclusions like the author of this article.