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1 posted on 03/20/2003 9:17:44 PM PST by An.American.Expatriate
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To: An.American.Expatriate
After roughly 24 hours of Operation Iraqi Freedom, I am convinced that this is not just a war for the liberation of the Iraqi people, it is a lesson to the entire world that if you mess with the US, you will be obliterated. This lesson is being broadcast live for the entire world to see. The key lessons for the world so far:

1. Payback is a bitch. The terrorists tried to decapitate the American government on September 11th, and who did GWB go after with the first shots, literally, of this war?!? He not only went after Saddam, he also launched attacks anew (within 20 minutes of taking out Saddam in his bunker)against Al Qaeda and bin Laden. It's personal this time around. You killed 3000+ of us, we'll wipe you, not your people, out. There will be no criminal trial circus. There will be international war crimes tribunal. There WILL be retribution courtesy of the American military.

2. Be afraid...be very afraid if you're a dictator, communist, or enemy of the US. If the US military can do the things they're doing, and this is not even the true beginning of "shock and awe" yet, OH MY GOD!! America is now the unrivaled military power in the world. No one, and I mean absolutely no one, can come close to our capabilities. Kim Jong Il, are you watching this live television too?

3. Don't Mess With Texas. This Texan in the Oval Office plays hardball. He has a moral compass and will take any and all risks to advance the cause of freedom. He is guided by honesty and integrity, not by polls. Get in his way and you'll end up with the Taliban, the UN, and the frogs and krauts.

4. Rummy is a genius. Embedded journalists, Old Europe versus New Europe, etc. I can't remember the last time a Cabinet member has so decisively driven the public discourse and manipulated the press in such a way as to make them look like fools 24/7.
212 posted on 03/20/2003 10:18:58 PM PST by medscribe
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To: An.American.Expatriate
The Coalition controls the oil in thwe gulf area of Iraq...
270 posted on 03/20/2003 10:35:50 PM PST by The Wizard (Demonrats are enemies of America)
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To: An.American.Expatriate
re: Thread Title

O peration
I raqi
L iberation


This was just pointed out!

So, I don't think this will be what the
operation is called! :)

283 posted on 03/20/2003 10:39:20 PM PST by Joy Angela
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To: An.American.Expatriate
Two random thoughts while watching the Army rolling into Iraq on Fox:

1) I pray that the M113 they are showing doesn't hit a mine and blow up right on live TV.

2) I visited democratunderground.com, and it made me sick. Those poor people are root for Sadaam, they badly want the U.S. to lose, and are not afraid to say so. To them, it's all about hating Bush. Anything that might help Bush politically is to be opposed, anything that might hurt Bush politically is to be supported, even defeat of the U.S. Military. What kind of sickos are they?
284 posted on 03/20/2003 10:39:26 PM PST by JimNtexas
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To: An.American.Expatriate
Bump for following the troops!
385 posted on 03/20/2003 11:20:58 PM PST by InShanghai (I was born on the crest of a wave, and rocked in the cradle of the deep.)
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To: An.American.Expatriate
You're not going to believe this, but I actually got an answer from my e-mail to UNMOVIC yesterday!!!

Here is thier response:

Von: Ewen Buchanan [buchanane@un.org]
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 20. März 2003 20:18
An: Me

Betreff: Re: SCUD Missiles in Irak

Is it confirmed that it was a scud?

If it was a scud it would certainly show Iraq to be lying as it has always asserted that it had no more. It would be up to the Security Council to delare a material breach.

Below is our assessment of where matters rest on scuds (from the Clusters document on our website www.unmovic.org).

I. MISSILE CLUSTERS
a. Scud type missiles
Introduction
In 1974, Iraq started taking delivery of the foreign made Scud-B, a surface-to-surface combat missile with a range up to 300 kilometres, and associated equipment (launchers, ground support equipment). At the beginning of 1987, Iraq started modifying Scud-B missiles to extend their range. After several tests, on 3 August 1987, a test missile achieved a range of approximately 615 kilometres. This modified missile was subsequently designated as Al Hussein. After this success, Iraq decided to reverse-engineer the Scud-B missile. At the beginning of 1988, the director of the Military Industrialization Commission (MIC) tasked a facility designated as Project 1728 to indigenously develop and produce Scud-type engines.

Background
In August 1991, Iraq declared the import of a total of 819 Scud-B combat missiles with a matching number of conventional warheads. It also declared matching quantities for the import of main fuel (818 tonnes) and oxidizer (2895 tonnes) for those missiles. Iraq further declared that it had imported 11 Scud-B missile transporter-erector-launchers (TEL), and had declared the indigenous production of four additional launchers (known as Al Nida) from imported trucks and 50-tonne trailers. These missiles, launchers and propellants constituted the core elements of Iraq's missile force before the Gulf War. UNSCOM was satisfied that 817 out of 819 imported Scud-B missiles had been accounted for. This finding was endorsed by UNSCOM Commissioners in November 1997. However, UNSCOM could not account for approximately 25 imported warheads.

Iraq had declared the unilateral destruction of significant quantities of Scud-B propellants. However, this was not supported by documentation. Iraq did not provide two inventory diaries, known to UNSCOM and requested by it, that had covered the time of the destruction of the proscribed missile propellants. Iraq has maintained its position that it did not have these diaries when UNMOVIC repeated the request in January 2003. In June 1998, Iraq indicated that, due to the stated limited storage lifetime of the main fuel (7 years) and of the oxidizer (10 years), they would no longer have been usable.

UNSCOM could not confirm the existence of other suppliers of Scud-B combat missiles to Iraq.

Prior to the Gulf war (1988-1990), Iraq had also made extensive efforts to develop its capability to indigenously produce Scud-type missiles. In this respect, Iraq declared that it had been able to indigenously produce a total of 80 combustion chamber/nozzle assemblies, of which 54 to 57 had been rejected due to poor production quality. Iraq had declared the unilateral destruction of the combustion chamber/nozzle assemblies. However, the methods used for this destruction prevented UNSCOM from achieving a full accounting of the 80 assemblies.

Iraq also stated in 1997 that, in April 1990, it had indigenously produced seven "training" engines, which had been delivered to an operational missile unit for training purposes. Iraq stated that these engines had been unilaterally destroyed, along with the imported missiles in July 1991. UNSCOM did not find any remnants of such engines and, therefore, could not verify this declaration. These assertions were repeated in a document provided to UNMOVIC on 8 February 2003.

In February 1998, Iraq declared that, prior to the Gulf war, it had indigenously produced 121 Scud-type warheads. This was discussed during a Technical Evaluation Meeting in 1998 and, although Iraq orally provided information concerning the production of these warheads, it did not support the information with any documentation. UNSCOM could not find remnants for approximately 25 of the declared indigenously produced warheads. UNSCOM was not able to obtain a full picture of Iraq's warhead production.

In February 1996, Iraq admitted that, before the Gulf War, it had started to construct facilities to produce Scud-B propellants and that construction had continued after the adoption of resolution 687 (1991). However, Iraq stated that the facilities never became operational and were eventually converted to civilian use and submitted for monitoring by UNSCOM until December 1998.

Iraq imported key engine components that it could not indigenously produce. For example, Iraq declared that, between mid-1989 and mid-1990, it had received from a foreign supplier 35 turbo-pumps out of an initial order of 305. According to Iraq, a total of 14 turbo-pumps had been used in testing activities and the remainder had been unilaterally destroyed in July 1991. The extensive methods used for the unilateral destruction prevented UNSCOM from making a full accounting for the declared turbo-pumps. UNSCOM also obtained documentary proof that two turbo-pumps did not arrive in Iraq until six months after the date Iraq declared it had used them in static tests.

Iraq stated that, due to the lack of certain equipment, components and know-how, Project 1728 had not been able to produce a complete engine. However, in 1998, UNSCOM concluded that, by late 1990, Iraq had had the capability to indigenously manufacture, from indigenously produced and foreign parts, a limited number of Scud-type engines and missiles. It should nevertheless be noted that, in 1998, Iraq was experiencing some difficulties in indigenously producing/assembling an Al Samoud engine, a smaller liquid propulsion engine based on the same technology as that of the Scud-B.

Before the Gulf War, Iraq had the capability to indigenously manufacture warheads, airframes, and certain engine components but had to rely on imports for some key engine components as well as guidance and control (G&C) components. Iraq had attempted to indigenously produce Scud-B type propellants and was able to assemble an indigenous launcher.

UNSCOM found that Iraq had continued to engage in activities after they had become proscribed by the adoption of resolution 687 (1991). For example, Iraq had established working groups as late as November 1993 to work on Scud-B guidance and control systems. Iraq stated that the working groups were able to produce only preliminary production drawings and that they had been disbanded two weeks after having started work.

Following Lieutenant-General Hussein Kamal's defection, the Iraqi authorities handed over to UNSCOM a small number of Scud-B guidance and control equipment and various other parts that had been imported for its pre-Gulf War missile activities.

Iraq stated in early 1996 that, in 1995, a foreign middleman had offered Iraq five disassembled second-hand TELs of a size much larger than the Scud-B TELs. According to Iraq, since it had had no interest in the offer, the proposal had been rejected and the parts had never been delivered.

In 1995, Iraq declared that it had not informed UNSCOM of the work it had carried out at the Al Sadiq factory in 1992/1993 for some 18 months as the work had only been related to non-proscribed missile production. UNSCOM questioned this rationale given that Iraq had declared similar work at another facility.

On 3 March 2003, Iraq provided two documents concerning the material balance for combat warheads and the local production of liquid fuel engines. Earlier, on 25 February 2003, Iraq also offered to provide UNMOVIC with metal fragments, which it had informed UNSCOM were from indigenously produced engines. At that time, it had refused to provide the items to UNSCOM as it had objected to UNSCOM seeking an analysis of the items at laboratories outside of Iraq.

In the material balance for combat warheads document, Iraq indicated its readiness to discuss the details of the unilateral destruction of the warheads in 1991, and offered to conduct a recount. It also suggested that joint excavations be conducted at the unilateral destruction site and at the site where destruction had been carried out under UNSCOM supervision. Iraq also provided the names of eight persons who it states had carried out the transport and destruction of warheads in 1991. UNMOVIC is still reviewing the information and other details provided in the document. It is still not clear whether the activities suggested could help resolve any part of the outstanding issues in this area.

As for the document on local production of liquid fuel engines, it states inter alia that Iraq did not reach the stage of producing a combat-level engine until 17 January 1991. The document also provides a list of 46 persons, in addition to the five senior staff that had been named in its 1996 FFCD, who it states were the main scientific and engineering staff in Project 1728. An analysis of the information provided is underway.

Assessment
Although UNSCOM reported that all but two of the 819 declared imported Scud-B combat missiles had been "effectively" accounted for, the stated consumption of some missiles could not be independently verified. This was the case for 14 Scud-B missiles as targets in a missile interception project. While such use is supported by some documentation contained in the so-called Scud files, it is questionable whether Iraq would have really used, what were at that time, valuable operational assets in the pursuit of such a project. Furthermore, available data could only corroborate a very small number of declared missile launches at that time. It cannot be excluded that Iraq retained a certain numbers of the missiles. The additional information Iraq provided on 8 February 2003 on the missile interception project does not resolve the outstanding questions.

Iraq's thorough methods of unilateral destruction prevented an assessment of its achievements in the indigenous production of Scud-B engines. Furthermore, the methods used prevented a clear accounting of the "training" engines and some specific key components of the indigenously produced liquid propellant engine. The lack of evidence to support Iraq's declarations on its destruction of these indigenously produced "training" engines, as well as on the key engine components, such as turbo-pumps, raises the question whether they were all destroyed as declared. Iraq could, in fact, have produced a small number of Scud-type liquid propellant engines from both imported turbo-pumps and locally produced engine components.

Moreover, the lack of documentation to support the destruction of a significant amount of Scud-B liquid propellant, and the fact that approximately 50 warheads were not accounted for among the remnants of unilateral destruction, suggest that these items may have been retained for a proscribed missile force. After investigating Iraq's statement that, due to the limited storage lifetime, the propellants would now be useless, UNMOVIC has assessed that the propellants would in fact still be usable and would therefore need to be verified as destroyed.

Questions also arise with respect to activities related to proscribed guidance and control systems that Iraq had conducted from 1992 to 1995. It is difficult to accept Iraq's statement that they were for non-proscribed missiles. Of particular concern are the guidance and control working groups that Iraq says had been established for a very short period of time in November 1993. The concern is that Iraq may have been conducting reverse engineering of proscribed guidance and control systems as part of its missile activities even after the adoption of resolutions 687 (1991) and 715 (1991). Furthermore, it cannot be excluded that Iraq has retained such guidance and control equipment.

Another indication of possible proscribed activity is the offer that Iraq said it received from a middleman for five disassembled TELs. Some parts were already shipped to an adjacent country. Although Iraq said that it had rejected the offer, no evidence has been provided in support. These parts might have allowed the assembly of one or two TELs, which would have been another piece for a reconstituted Scud-type missile force. In this connection, Iraq has, so far, been unable to locate a 50-tonne trailer that it declared it had imported for the indigenous production of the Al Nida mobile launcher and which it claims had been stolen. Iraq also did not provide UNSCOM with the parts of an imported Scud TEL, which it states it had disassembled.

The 2002 CAFCD and its supporting documents, the most recent semi annual declarations, and the material submitted to UNMOVIC on 8 February 2003 provide no significant new information relevant to the aforementioned issues.

The following action is required to address the foregoing issues:

To clear up the uncertainty as to whether Iraq has engines and key engine components that could be used for the production of proscribed missiles, Iraq should submit the remnants of the seven engines, which it claimed were "training" engines, to UNMOVIC to allow for their analysis and verification. The examination and analysis of these remnants could help determine the origin of the material used in the manufacture of the engines as well as their nature. Iraq should also submit to UNMOVIC the melted remnants of the destroyed key components for analysis. This could assist in the verification of Iraq's declaration of the destruction of the turbo-pumps.

Iraq should also provide documentation such as production records and quality control documents to support the information it had submitted during the Technical Evaluation Meeting in 1998. This information could allow UNMOVIC to establish the number of indigenously produced warheads.

In order to address the broader question of the existence of a possible Scud-type missile force, Iraq should provide specific documentation in support of its declarations. An example would be the two reports written by the missile force commander on 30 January 1991 and in May 1991 that, on the basis of Iraq's own declarations and outside information, are known to exist. The first report could help clarify the state of the combat missile force at the end of the Gulf War. The second report could allow clarification of the status of the missile force just after the adoption of resolution 687 (1991). Iraq should also provide technical documentation concerning the interception missile project in order to support its declaration on the use of Scud-B missiles as targets in the project. The provision of the two diaries that relate to the unilateral destruction of the proscribed missile propellants should also be provided. Iraq's most recent response to UNMOVIC's request on these matters provides no further clarification.

As for the activities related to guidance and control systems, such as gyroscope reverse engineering and procurement of various guidance and control components, Iraq should also provide UNMOVIC with all the Scud-B guidance and control drawings and hardware and documentation that it may still have.

Iraq's intent in conducting proscribed missile activities or procurement after the adoption and its acceptance of resolutions 687 (1991) and 715 (1991) needs to be clarified. In addition, the scope of these activities cannot be fully established until convincing evidence and answers are provided by Iraq.

Guidance and control activities, including research and development, will need specific attention due to their particular dual-use nature.

Actions that Iraq could take to help resolve the issue
- Present any retained proscribed missiles and associated equipment, including the 50-tonne trailer declared to have been stolen and the parts from a disassembled imported Scud TEL.
- Present the remnants of the seven engines, which it claimed were "training" engines, for analysis and verification. As proposed by Iraq on 8 February 2003, the fragments found by Iraq on 4 August 1997 should also be presented for analysis.
- Present the melted remnants of the destroyed key components, including the turbo-pumps for analysis.
- Present documentation or other evidence to support the information it had submitted during the TEM in 1998 on the number of indigenously produced warheads.
- Present other specific documentation, such as the two reports written by the missile force commander on 30 January 1991 and in May 1991; technical documentation, such as videotapes and tracking data, concerning the interception missile project; and the two diaries that relate to the unilateral destruction of the proscribed missile propellants.
- Present any remaining Scud-B guidance and control drawings, documentation and hardware.
- Explain and present credible evidence on why it had conducted proscribed missile activities and procurement after the adoption and acceptance by Iraq of resolutions 687 (1991) and 715 (1991).

To: "'info@unmovic.org'"
cc:

Subject: SCUD Missiles in Irak
20/03/2003 06:37

Good Morning,

curently it is being reported that Iraq has fired at least one SCUD missile against US Forces in Kuwait.

Would Iraq's possession of SCUD Missile(s) [a banned missile system] finally constitute a material breach of the various resolutions with which Irak was supposed to comply?

Why were these not found earlier?

Best Regards

412 posted on 03/20/2003 11:34:04 PM PST by An.American.Expatriate
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To: An.American.Expatriate
Did I just hear someone on Fox say that the 101 Airborne have captured the H2 airfield in western Iraq?
414 posted on 03/20/2003 11:34:25 PM PST by JimNtexas
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To: An.American.Expatriate
Did anyone see the dems just now on C-span 2?? It was on the final house vote for Bush's budget...It cut entitlement speding 1%, increased defense spending and included the Bush tax cuts...the vote was VERY CLOSE. Something like 213-215 against the budget with THIRTEEN MORONS on our side voting united with the democrats. The dems in the aisle stoof up and started running around clapping and cheering...thinking they had defeated the Bush budget, then at the last second, one dem and one rep changed their vote and it passed!!! Everyone on the 'right' side of the aisle started cheering and laughing, then they went on to other business....another quick victory for us!!!:)
469 posted on 03/21/2003 12:01:09 AM PST by Capitalism2003
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To: An.American.Expatriate
Good morning AAE. Now I have something to do while DH sleeps and I take over mopping duties in our flooded laundry room. That and watch the Iraqis surrender on every station. Wow - last night the war started while I was in the shower, today they surrender while I am grabbing a quick nap.

Time to mop again :(

556 posted on 03/21/2003 12:41:57 AM PST by meowmeow (Now I miss the drought.)
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To: An.American.Expatriate
This looks like the place to get the latest updates.

Mostly follwing it on Fox, but check out cspan for BBC feed, which has some live reports from British forces.

Fox showing stills of Patriot knocking out scud.

574 posted on 03/21/2003 12:57:01 AM PST by Ken H
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To: An.American.Expatriate

IRAQI TROOPS SURRENDER

632 posted on 03/21/2003 1:43:48 AM PST by TexKat
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To: An.American.Expatriate
QUEEN'S PRIDE IN TROOPS
637 posted on 03/21/2003 1:49:47 AM PST by TexKat
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To: An.American.Expatriate
http://www.rosbaltnews.com/

Propaganda Alert.

Captured British and US Soldiers to Be Offered Iraqi Citizenship
BAGHDAD, March 21. Every British and US soldier captured during the military operation in Iraq will be offered Iraqi citizenship. This was announced yesterday in Baghdad by Iraqi Prime Minister Tariq Aziz. The prime minister also reiterated that the Iraqi people would 'fight to the very end' and that the whole population believes Iraq will win the war.
809 posted on 03/21/2003 2:54:34 AM PST by OXENinFLA
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To: An.American.Expatriate
FoxNews: 76% support President on War--even without UN.
923 posted on 03/21/2003 3:30:38 AM PST by TomGuy
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To: An.American.Expatriate

U.S. suffers 1st combat casualty

U.S., British forces race for Basra

939 posted on 03/21/2003 3:39:54 AM PST by TexKat
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To: An.American.Expatriate
Blair: "No point in dwelling on the differences with France..."

[Interpretation: France is a lost cause; let's move on.]
948 posted on 03/21/2003 3:43:54 AM PST by TomGuy
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To: An.American.Expatriate
FoxNews reported that Ollie North was in a helo next to the one that crashed and videotaped it. Tape turned over to Pentagon.
963 posted on 03/21/2003 3:53:20 AM PST by TomGuy
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To: An.American.Expatriate
FoxNews reporting 7 missiles launched toward Kuwait. 2 went into water. Most are assumed to be scuds (illegals).
970 posted on 03/21/2003 3:55:24 AM PST by TomGuy
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To: An.American.Expatriate
FoxNews reporting no key Iraqi leadership defections yet, though reports by other sources.
977 posted on 03/21/2003 3:57:42 AM PST by TomGuy
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To: An.American.Expatriate
Daschle on FoxNews now.
1,125 posted on 03/21/2003 4:47:41 AM PST by TomGuy
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