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Statement on War with Iraq
USCCB ^ | March 19, 2003 | Most Reverend Wilton D. Gregory

Posted on 03/20/2003 10:38:18 AM PST by ArrogantBustard

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A real statement from the Church re: the war with Iraq. Rather different from the dishonest, disgusting drivel peddled by Reuters.
1 posted on 03/20/2003 10:38:18 AM PST by ArrogantBustard
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To: sinkspur
For your information and edification.
2 posted on 03/20/2003 10:38:59 AM PST by ArrogantBustard
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To: ArrogantBustard
This is more like it. These people aren't stuffed shirts like the others. These people have seen military service, perhaps chaplains in Korea. Reality.
3 posted on 03/20/2003 10:41:17 AM PST by RightWhale (Theorems link concepts: Proofs establish links)
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To: ArrogantBustard
Nice to see a full statement and not the butchered out of context edit of the Popes words that pissed off so many.
4 posted on 03/20/2003 10:42:58 AM PST by icwhatudo (If its about stealing oil, why didn't we do it last time?)
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To: ArrogantBustard
Thank you. As a layman (and a non-Catholic with heavy Catholic sympathies) it is nice to see a statement like this. This is what I would expect from moral religious leadership, and it does my heart good.
5 posted on 03/20/2003 10:47:12 AM PST by TheHeterodoxConservative
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To: ArrogantBustard
Maybe that Byzantine Rite bishop will shut his mouth now, but I doubt it.
6 posted on 03/20/2003 10:47:12 AM PST by wideawake (Support our troops and their Commander-in-Chief)
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To: RightWhale
A couple days ago, I posted an article from Zenit News Agency showing that the usual suspects had grossly misquoted the Pope. Sunday last, even as he was praying for peace, Pope John Paul II placed the burden of preventing war squarely on Saddam Hussein's shoulders. NONE of the secular news outlets reported that.

The secular news outlets reported a half truth.

A half truth is a lie.

The secular news outlets are Liars.

7 posted on 03/20/2003 10:47:24 AM PST by ArrogantBustard
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To: ArrogantBustard
Finally! I had hoped this would have been done earlier. I wonder if any of the press will show this.
8 posted on 03/20/2003 10:49:00 AM PST by Domestic Church (AMDG...)
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To: Domestic Church
I wonder if any of the press will show this.

I don't. I also don't wonder if the anti-Catholics on FR will ignore this thread. And I don't wonder if those who don't ignore the thread will post some silly rant before even reading the statement.

I'm fairly confident of what they will do.

But maybe they've more intellectual honesty than I give them credit for.

9 posted on 03/20/2003 10:53:16 AM PST by ArrogantBustard
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To: ArrogantBustard
I am happy to see this somewhat sensible statement from the bishops.

I would have been happier had they made the more proper judgement several months ago that this action does indeed satisfy all of Aquinas', Jerome's and Augustine's requirements of "Just War Doctrine". Unfortunately, Mother Church has proven incapable of correctly interpreting this in the past, and again simply carried out their tradition of blindness to the proper and necessary use of force in this fallen world. It isn't that tough to interpret, as anyone who can do a google search for the Summa Theologica can satisfy for themselves. They again allowed the wonderful emotion of compassion for the short-term suffering of a dictator's citizens during a coming war overcome the truth of the long-term suffering at the hands of the dictator. They ought to have excoriated Hussein and condemned his immoral and illegal actions daily for the past 20 years instead.

The failure of the whole world to stand in solidarity with the US against the madman in Iraq certainly doomed the diplomatic efforts to failure.

10 posted on 03/20/2003 11:05:44 AM PST by AFPhys (((PRAYING for: President Bush & advisors, troops & families, Americans)))
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To: Siobhan; american colleen; sinkspur; livius; Lady In Blue; Salvation; Polycarp; narses; ...
Pinging the catholic list
11 posted on 03/20/2003 11:11:17 AM PST by NYer (God Bless America and protect)
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To: ArrogantBustard
While we have warned of the potential moral dangers of embarking on this war, we have also been clear that there are no easy answers.
Now you're talking.
12 posted on 03/20/2003 11:21:07 AM PST by eastsider
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To: ArrogantBustard
A real statement from the Church re: the war with Iraq. Rather different from the dishonest, disgusting drivel peddled by Reuters.

Yes. Rather well-considered, quite in contrast to the rantings of La Civilta Cattolica, Archbishop Martino, and JP II's characterization of war as a "crime against humanity."

But, then, these are American bishops, and they have a very clear view of what we are doing.

13 posted on 03/20/2003 11:37:40 AM PST by sinkspur
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To: sinkspur
As the Holy Father said last Sunday [but the secular media refused to report], "the political leaders in Baghdad have an urgent duty to cooperate fully with the international community, to eliminate any motive for armed intervention."

If you'd been paying attention, you'd already know this.

14 posted on 03/20/2003 11:40:50 AM PST by ArrogantBustard
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To: ArrogantBustard
All-in-all, pretty good ... not much here that even I could disagree with.

Except: "Any decision to defend against Iraq's weapons of mass destruction by using our own weapons of mass destruction would be clearly unjustified."

Sorry, but the threat of immediate retaliation is something that must be made. And, once threatened, the use must be upheld if the enemy figures it's a bluff.
The only thing that prevented Hitler from using WMD (chemical/biological) during WWII was the threat that England and the United States would respond .. and he knew we weren't bluffing.

15 posted on 03/20/2003 11:46:16 AM PST by BlueLancer (Der Elite Møøsenspåånkængruppen ØberKømmååndø (EMØØK))
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To: BlueLancer
Sorry, but the threat of immediate retaliation is something that must be made.

Let's be very careful, here. In addition to being morally reprehensible, direct deliberate attacks against civilian populations are militarily useless. Unless the destruction of said civilians is the military goal. In which case, one is engaged in genocide. The use of nuclear weapons, and maybe chemical weapons, against military forces or installations, OTOH, certainly can be legitimate. If SH, for example were to barrage our troops with VX, or nuke them, or worse detonate something like that in CONUS I would not be averse to nuking every last one of his hidden command bunkers. We even have a nice earth-penetrating dial-a-yield weapon just perfect for that sort of thing. But the loose talk of "turning Baghdad into a parking lot" is repulsive and beneath us.

16 posted on 03/20/2003 11:56:00 AM PST by ArrogantBustard
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To: ArrogantBustard
Well, in large part, I agree with you. I'm an "eye-for-an-eye" type of guy myself. If WMD attacks are against military targets, such should be the retaliation.

However, a large-scale WMD attack against one of our civilian population centers should be met with an identical counter-strike. Otherwise, the enemy can park his military inside population centers and blast away at ours without retaliation.

Genocide, my *#&$& ... fire-bombing Dresden and Tokyo was not genocide. The two nukes at Hiroshima and Nagasaki were the best investments that we made in wartime, saving the lives of tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands, of our own troops (and Japanese defenders, civilian and military .. although that doesn't really enter into MY equation).

17 posted on 03/20/2003 12:04:56 PM PST by BlueLancer (Der Elite Møøsenspåånkængruppen ØberKømmååndø (EMØØK))
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To: NYer
probably should ping some of the Catholic Bashers, so they can eat crow.
18 posted on 03/20/2003 12:11:46 PM PST by StAthanasiustheGreat
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To: tiki; american colleen; Desdemona; NYer; sandyeggo; Domestic Church; nickcarraway; Lady In Blue
Worth reading this is (Did I say that in my Yoda voice?)

Ping.

19 posted on 03/20/2003 12:18:11 PM PST by Maeve (Siobhan's daughter and sometime banshee.)
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To: NWU Army ROTC; Land of the Irish; ultima ratio; drstevej; RnMomof7; xzins
probably should ping some of the Catholic Bashers, so they can eat crow.

Excellent point! Pinging them now.

20 posted on 03/20/2003 12:19:25 PM PST by NYer (God Bless America and protect)
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