Evidence Aquits Clovis People Of Ancient Killings, Archaeologists Say

University Of Washington ^ | 2-25-2003 | Joel Schwartz

[Burkeman1]

Yes I did- and they are flawed.

[blam]

"Yes I did- and they are flawed."

Okay, but I put my money on Professor Baillie

[blam]

"Blam- Mayan civilization was just peaking at 540 and flourished for another 200 to 300 years at least."

Found this little tid-bit that mentions a decline in specifically 540AD.

"Tikal was one of the winners in the new order, making a strategic alliance with Teotihuacan, the major power in the Mexican highlands, and rising to become the dominant regional power. Then, with Teotihuacan's decline around 540AD, Tikal entered a long hiatus, which only ended in 692 with the accession of ruler Ah Cacau Caan Chac.

It was during Ah Cacau's reign and that of his successors that Tikal reached its peak of building activity, artistic achievement and population. Numbers rose from an estimated 45,000 over the surrounding 50 square miles to as many as 70,000. Then, in the early 9th Century, Tikal entered its final decline. Building stopped and the quality of its ceramics coarsened. The population collapsed to a mere 3,000 to 4,000 people who looted the tombs of former rulers and dumped their refuse in dark corners of abandoned palaces. By 1000 AD, Tikal was left entirely to the encroaching forest. Why?

[blam]

See post #83, I meant to send it to you.

[Burkeman1]

Uh- building throughout multiple Mayan city states (not just the two you mentioned) was at it's peak from about 450 to 650AD. Not to mention China and India at the same time which were far more advanced than the Meso Americans and also flourishing societies. And let's not forget central asia (kazakistan) which had a strong culture. You seem to place some mythic significance upon 540AD. Western Roman civ was in decline for two centuries. Certainly natural disasters can push a civ already in decline over the edge but Rome was but a shell of itself- split in two and not even a real empire in 540AD. The dark ages for Western civ was well under way by then.

[blam]

"You seem to place some mythic significance upon 540AD. "

Nothing mythic, hard data. The trees worldwide recorded something catastrophic at that time +- 4.0 years. I submit that the Dark Ages were so named because it was dark. A dust veil around the entire earth.

[Burkeman1]

Your post was most timely. After posting on this thread several days ago I picked up a copy of "Guns, Germs, and Steel" in papperback at the airport. This book very convincingly outlines the theory that megafauna were exterminated by modern humans as they spread over the planet.

Certain shades of the green left have much of their ideology invested in the notion of the pristine savage as "caretakers" of the land, as being "at one" with nature, that tribal bands of hunter gatherers- kneww things about the natural world- "secret things"- that no modern evil capitalist whitey could ever know. Well this book pretty much shatters these lies and myths. Early man was a mass butcher of mega fauna (and killed far more than they could consume or store.) Further- hunter gatherers were not peaceful. Murder was most likely the leading cause of death among males of such early societies.

[Burkeman1]

The "dark ages" were not called that until modern times. People in 550AD didn't walk around and say- gee it looks dark. Modern scholars applied that term to describe the loss of learning and knowledge from most of Western and Northern Europe when the Romans began to pull back. For example- English historians pinpoint the start of the "dark ages" in Britian at 411AD- when the Romans left. And even though most historians would argue the dark ages ended around 1000AD (this is an argument) and the Medevil period began- Britian did not attain the same level of technology, adminstration, and economy it had enjoyed under Rome until the late 16th century.

[SunkenCiv]

Busy night, eh?

Please FREEPMAIL me if you want on, off, or alter the "Gods, Graves, Glyphs" PING list --
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[SunkenCiv]

update:

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[SunkenCiv]

Just updating the GGG information, not sending a general distribution.

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list. Thanks.

Please FREEPMAIL me if you want on or off the
"Gods, Graves, Glyphs" PING list or GGG weekly digest
-- Archaeology/Anthropology/Ancient Cultures/Artifacts/Antiquities, etc.
Gods, Graves, Glyphs (alpha order)

[SunkenCiv]

GGG managers are SunkenCiv, StayAt HomeMother & Ernest_at_the_Beach	join list or digest view topics view or post blog bookmark post a topic subscribe
Just updating the GGG info, not sending a general distribution. To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list.

[SunkenCiv]

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The Cycle of Cosmic Catastrophes: Flood, Fire, and Famine in the History of Civilization by Richard Firestone, Allen West, and Simon Warwick-Smith

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[SunkenCiv]

Note: this topic is from 2/25/2003. Thanks blam.

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[SunkenCiv]

Just an update.

[gleeaikin]

I often wondered why the Carolingian Empire of Charlemagne did not continue to flourish after his death. then I read a book about food which reported that in Europe in the 100 years after his death there were 33 famines some of which lasted 2 or 3 years. Examining my volcano encyclopedia I found several very large volcanic eruptions for that period, especially in the Far East. There was climate change in that period which caused Ergot of rye in northern Europe to kill many people, and in the south, Arab import of barberry bushes which is the alternate host to wheat rust plus climate decimated wheat crops. For the 540 event, Google Cassiodorus who may have described results of a major meteoric event, or perhaps a volcanic event.

[gleeaikin]

A book by Firestone, et al which Sunken Civ has posted numerous times explains in great detail how probably several boloids may have crashed into the Northern Hemisphere and created Lake Michigan, and also the Carolina Bays, as well as similar circles in other areas, all of which have an axis along the ellipse which points in the general direction of Lake Michigan. My theory is that crashing into the great glaciers would have caused huge blocks of ice to scatter across the land leaving these elliptical ponds.

I see that Sunken Civ has finally posted a Firestone book, but I think the one I read was earlier, perhaps he can post that one as well. A very good read for the amateur science lover. We really need to verify the ages on a lot more modest size meteor craters The Barringer crater is actually small compared to some of the others which have probably influenced human history. For example the crater in the Iraq Marshes from around 2,000 bc, which no doubt influence many groups in the middle east. Also much larger craters which were formed in Argentina a little earlier which perhaps caused the beginning of the First Intermediate Period in Egypt which Ipuwer described so dramatically.

Three significant areas which I believe need much more work and open minds are dating craters from boloids and volcanoes of significant size, extensively searching underwater to the depth of 400 feet, and digging in areas where exploration stopped because a Clovis layer was found. I believe that many answers to hominid history will be found with those actions.

Incidentally, my interest in these subjects dates back more than 60 years. As a small child I remember my father showing me the National Geographic article on the birth of Paracutin volcano in Mexico in I believe 1944. Several years later, I think in the 5th grade I did a multi color cutaway drawing of a volcano for science which got me an A. Not long after that archeology and anthropology piqued my interest and of course it all continues to this day.

[no-to-illegals]

Thanks gleeaikin. Always look forward to your interesting info.