Battle of the X-Planes (the JSF project)

NOVA ^ | Feb 4, 2003

[spetznaz]

This is my opinion: Basically the program was a rather interesting (albeit a little 'skimmy' in that the left out some intricacies, but that is alright since it was never meant to be too technical). It potrayed the nerve-fraying ordeal that the two companies faced as they competed against one another to provide an aircraft that would meet the demands of the next-generation US and British aerial forces (USAF, USN, US Marines and RAF) pertinent to stealth, super-cruise, VTOL (the RAF and USMarines versions) and advanced air-superiority matrix supposed to be second only to the proposed F-22 Raptor.

As usual the competition was rife with a lot of political sycophany, as well as technical advances (and a couple of foul-ups that were not anticipated). And in the end the winner was declared (the Lockheed Martin F-35 JSF), which basically left the Boeing version out in the cold (even if it was an excellent aircraft).

Personally i was fine with the decision since the F-35(LM) had one key factor that put it above the F-32(Boeing). That factor was that during VTOL its fan system exuded air that was much cooler than that of the F-32 (or harrier for that matter). The latter 2 used engine exhaust to hover ...but the F-35 included cool air from the fan, which meant it was a lot safer. (Safer in that when landing on the Marine carrier any person beneath it would not be instantly turned into a crispy wafer ....which has happened in the past to unwary folks chilling beneath a landing harrier .....although what they were doing there is open to debate LOL)

Anyways i am glad with the choice since it is not controversial like the F-22 Raptor vs F-23 Black Widow, where the Raptor won even though the Black Widow was said to possess superior characteristics in everything but close-range maneuvering.

And the US and UK get a plane that is extremely capable (the F-35) and that, unlike the F-111 Advark, is capable of meeting every expectation and surpassing it.

I also believe that when it comes to VTOL aircraft that have actually flown it is the world's 4th VTOL fighter (the West's 2nd after the Harrier ....and the world's 4th after the Yak-48 Forger and the Yak-141 Freestyle). It is also the West's first supersonic VTOL jet (the Harrier was sub-sonic) and the World's second (Yak-141 being first).

All in all the JSF is the most advanced plane, after the F-22, and should be a vital asset in the air wings of any nation using it.

F-35

X-32 concept

[spetznaz]

I mentioned some other aircraft in my post above and here are their pictures (those who know me know i am infamous for pics ....blame it on a hyper-fast ethernet internet uplink that i flaunt with unabated vivacity LOL).

F-22 Raptor:

F-23 Black Widow

Yak-48 (Basically a Soviet knockoff of the Harrier series that was not even nearly as good as the Harrier )

Yak-141 Freestyle (Now this was an aircraft that was formidable, however due to Russian money issues only a few have been made. However this aircraft, although it has the distinction of being the first supersonic VTOL jet, does not even come close to matching the JSF, meaning it is already obsolete ....unless it is facing Harriers. And even that is questionable because based on UK Falklands results British pilots were able to use the subsonic harriers to great effect .....and a harrier in the hands of a competent ...read UK or US ....pilot is still an extremely deadly aircraft)

[blastdad51]

Sure hope they perform better than they look!! Them birds are UGLY!!!!

[ZinGirl]

That factor was that during VTOL its fan system exuded air that was much cooler than that of the F-32 (or harrier for that matter).

The drawback, too, was that Boeing's X-32 needed to be reconfigured (remove panels) for the fancy hovering/landing stuff....but the panels needed to be IN PLACE to go supersonic (but they promised to fix that, right?). The X-35 could go supersonic AND do the way cool Harrier-style landing in one easy flight.

I enjoyed the program....even if I already knew the "ending"!

[spetznaz]

Ping!

[jlogajan]

That factor was that during VTOL its fan system exuded air that was much cooler than that of the F-32 (or harrier for that matter). The latter 2 used engine exhaust to hover ...but the F-35 included cool air from the fan, which meant it was a lot safer.

Well, there are two ports, fore and aft. The forward port is cool air, but he aft port is engine exhaust.

[ZinGirl]

true...Boeing's was hard to look at. hey, appearances count! I thought the F-35 was sharp-looking.

[Poohbah]

Actually, the BIG thing that put the LockMart design ahead was the fact that when the X-32 arrived at Patuxent River for the flyoff, its inlet design earned it the nickname "Monica."

[spetznaz]

LOL

[spetznaz]

By the way, what do you think of the F-22 vs YF-23 thing?

[spetznaz]

Actually appearances matter a lot ...and the F-35 was better looking than the X-32 (although i liked the cockpit design on the X-32).

[Poohbah]

The F-23 carried less ordnance (4 vs. 6 AMRAAMs) and probably wasn't as adaptable to an air-to-mud mission.

Another issue is that after the B-2 Billion Buck Bomber fiasco (with monthly price increases calculated by Northrop at no extra charge), there was no way in h-e-double-hockey-sticks that Congress was going to give the Air Farce the money to spend on turning the YF-23 into production hardware. Northrop's up-front cost projections for the B-2 had been SERIOUSLY off target, and that sort of thing is hard to live down.

Something about "fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me."

[ZinGirl]

uh, yeah....which is just what I said in post #7. That Boeing thing was U G L Y. I believe they referred to that a few times in the program. Did you notice, too, the X-32 got REALLY ugly underneath after only a few flights?

[Sabertooth]

((((((growl)))))

[Sabertooth]

((((((growl)))))

Ooops!

[SAMWolf]

Bump.

[VaBthang4]

Now see Spetz...

You know I love you but this is what I am talking about.

You just used a Nova story on America's JSF to drop in some Russian desgns that are basically "crap".

The JSF is more advanced than even the F-15 which I am sure you'd agree would make quick work of the two Russian examples you listed.

You said: Yak-48 (Basically a Soviet knockoff of the Harrier series that was not even nearly as good as the Harrier )"

It was a laugher and everyone knew it. I know you know it...I'll assume you listed it as a cheesy example of incompetence when designing effective Vertical Takeoff and Landing aircraft.~Wink~

Then you said: "Yak-141 Freestyle (Now this was an aircraft that was formidable..."

Let me jump in here. No it wasnt! LOL...A harrier would destroy this plane. The Harrier can perform a million and one different functions at low speed...this russian crap cant. I appreciate their having a similar design as far using the rear nozzle as a lift but it was basically a huge gas guzzling VSTOL that could hit Mach. I have no doubt that it's agility was severely limited due to its size and feul requirements.

I'm gonna chalk this up to being another example of your seemingly endless overzealous desire to someway list a Russian aircraft design was discussing the cream of the crop. But it amounts to discussing a semi-pro football player while showing video of the NFL All-Pro team.

:o)

[Centurion2000]

bump

[Magnum44]

From what I've seen the JSF will be a great plane. The only downside I've seen is that its single engine. Around the boat, and in combat, that's a minus.

[Petronski]

I think you hit the nail on the head. I too watched the program and enjoyed it capitally (though I must admit to looking up the ending soon after the film began), and I believe the final factors for the Pentagon's selection of Lockheed were two-fold:

(a) the Lockheed craft was able to land vertically AND exceed Mach with the same configuration.
(b) the Boeing craft was butt-ugly.