Posted on 01/29/2003 7:57:13 AM PST by TLBSHOW
--- there's nothing unconstitutional about the Federal Government providing foreign aid if the appropriations are authorized through our Constitutionally proscribed process of legislation, executive approval and judicial review.
So you claim, but where is this power so delegated? -- See the 10th, if you cannot find it.
The problem with American foreign aid is that it is currently being embezzled by institutions and criminals with no fealty to helping the people and societies toward which we target our generosity, and thus there is no ROI in American security and prosperity, or our God-ordained obligation to humanity. Foreign aid, as operated by the UN and the International mobsters, is being used in direct contravention to our interests. If the AIDS program bypasses these criminal conspiracies, that's a win for humanity and for America's security.
A program of this moral priority is untouchable, no despot or corrupt bureaucracy can interfere, and the power of despots and corrupt international bureaucracies will be eroded. That's a win-win.
My rights come from God. I choose which rights and prerogatives that I cede to my political institutions and leaders.
Sorry arnie, that choice has been made. You can try for Amendments of course.
If I think foreign aid is a good strategy to enhance my safety and security, and that of my tribe - I'll enable my Reps to use our American process to make it happen. When I think foreign aid is no longer a tool to promote my individual or group benefit, I'll work to yank it through the same process.
The 'process' being democratic majority rule. Thank you arnie.
The Constitution is primarily about the processes, consensus and safeguards to ensure MY individual political priorities have widespread support and wisdom. This AIDS initiative will have overwhelming American support, and if it is designed, funded, judicially reviewed in a Constitutionally legitimate way and executed in a logistically ethical and effective way, it'll be Constitutional on its face.
Finding 'penumbras' to support your wisdom arnie?
The debate whether the initiative is good policy and maximizes American long-term interest is another debate entirely, and one worth having. There is no inherent Constitutional issue here.
You have offered no basis for your claim. Congress is not delegated the authority to pay for such 'foreign aid'.
I'm still waiting for you to PROVE that assertion...
I got time...
I use the political process to pursue my priorities. My priority, right now, is to keep bad guys from killing me, my family, my neighbors and my countrymates. If you've seen a mouse in your den, don't wait for him to come back, go find his nest, there's probably a few buddies on location. Clean up the places in your house, your yard, your city that give mice food and shelter. This is cleaning up the places that support the Islamist vermin before they come in the house.
You need to re-read the American owner's manual, Joe. If you want to be left alone, you need to use political and judicial tools to fend off those who think your property is useful for their priorities.
The world is what it is: Dangerous, murder-ready and planning on coming to a town near you. I'm looking to nip that little caper at the root, and stabilizing cesspools of corruption is a vital part of that endeavor. If you don't want to pay for it ... well, find enough Americans and their political Reps to vote it down. Contest the Constitutionality in court. Or, don't pay your taxes in a principled protest. Best of luck to you in all those endeavors.
Are you saying that Bubba-2 has no convictions or principles of his own,and that he is so stupid that he has to follow the orders of his lackeys? Damn,maybe I should start calling him "Gore-2"?
Rove cares nothing about right or wrong.
And of course,Bubba-2 being a direct descendant of Gawd and all DOES know right from wrong,and is just going along with this because he has been hypnotized by his evil handlers?
All he cares about is political manipulation in order to win elections, period, no matter what the cost in national treasure and principle.
"He" who? Are you talking about Bubba-2 here or his sidekick? Sometimes it's hard to tell.
He is no different from Carvile, and sadly, W is falling for it.
He is exactly like Carville,and Bubba-2 is exactly like Bubba-1,but does a better job of faking sincerity.
If you don't like the policy, don't vote for politicians who would make this a codified and funded program. Contest it in court, see if the AIDS funding is legal. It is. Just don't say the 10th Amendment prohibits EVERY act of Congress - that's the laziest of the Libertarian dogmas and it is garbage.
You are far, far too literal and constraining in your understanding of the Constitution. All implied powers necessary and proper to carrying out express powers are legitimate.
Funny how you find no such 'implied powers' when penumbras are mentioned, kevin. - in effect, you have just admitted your socialistic, democratic views about legitimate power. Thanks. this is a keeper.
The President is charged with defending the United States and pursuing its foreign policy to the benefit of the people of the United States. If the efficient pursuit of those goals requires the expenditure of money via foreign aid, then foreign aid is fully constitutional.
Simple absolutist 'statist' argument kevin. The prez has no such 'foreign aid' power granted to him. Show me where this 'penumbra' you see, -- is located in the document.
The elegant and meticulously debated set of institutional protections, safeguards and balances woven into the Constitution were designed with the understanding that any document that only addressed the realities and priorities of 1785 would be anachronistic immediately upon passage. The beauty of the Constitution is that it was designed EXPRESSLY to process, manage and guard from excess a Federal Government response to an evolving world and its challenges. Continental Congressmen were humble and wise, they understood that they could never anticipate and address every contingent and evolving challenge that would face a future American society and citizenry. They built in an upgrade path. They operated on a little higher plateau of Maslow's pyramid than you do, tpaine. Thank God.
If you don't want to pitch in to protect the lives and communities of the American group, then get the eff out of the way please. You and your ilk have no scintilla of the courage, character and commitment the founders had. Madison, Washington, Clinton, Adams et al would hold the Libertarian debate society here on FR with the same disdain and contempt most of us here do. Mewlings about the unonstitutionality of Foreign Aid is just playing with yourself.
I see the countenance of Bush, Blair, Rumsfeld, Powell, Rice, Ashcroft, Ridge and Cheney. These people aren't screwing around, this is heavy shit we're in right now.
I'm in a "what can I do?" mode, because I know this is life and death vital. We're under attack. We're gonna take out the garbage, God willing. You just keep mumbling in the corner.
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