Court refuses asylum for Chinese couple claiming abortion threats

Associated Press (via San Jose Mercury News) ^ | 6 December 2002

[ArrogantBustard]

Non sequitur. The evil of socialism is not an excuse for the evil of abortafacient contraception (or any other kind, for that matter).

[tallhappy]

And it is in no way conservative to say, "ok, come on over.

Debatable. But not related to the issue of Government control of having children.

Advocating the government regulate who and under what circumstances an average couple can have children is the farthest one can get from conservatism or even libertarianism.

It is, though, 100% consistent with the UN view and communist Chinese regime's view.

[HighRoadToChina]

"Population control is reasonable in an overcrowded nation when the end justifies the means--like if you are Jewish."

[Bella_Bru]

Call it what you want. Tell YOUR church to start paying the welfare if they want their followers to not use birth control. I should not be forced to pay for your beliefs.

[hchutch]

In this case, we ought to let them stay here - their claims are concistent with the reports from any number of human rights groups. We're pretty much looking at a couple whose clearly facing what I would call persecution in their home country.

Let them stay here, let them build lives here, and have all the kids they want. Because I'll bet their kids will become Fine AMERICANS.

[A2J]

One thing is missing from this story: a child, whether alive or aborted. The girl has never been pregnant.

The story, it seems to me, is that these are two people who wanted to leave China and the best claim for asylum was the sterilization possibility that would only occur in the event of pregnancy. If China's cruel policy is one child, what does this couple have to worry about now seeing that she has never been pregnant from the start?

They need to go back and reapply for citizenship or alien status like the rest have to do. This is nothing but an attempted circumvention of the law.

[HighRoadToChina]

"As to the article though, how about this: Sure, you can come here and have your kids, BUT, we aren't giving you a penny to help raise them."

Agreed. Freedom yes but socialism and the nanny state no.

You will find that most Asians tend to get jobs and earn a living in the US.

[HighRoadToChina]

"They need to go back and reapply for citizenship or alien status like the rest have to do. This is nothing but an attempted circumvention of the law."

That's nice. They'll end up in the Laogai concentration camps and help make those wonderful cheap "Made in China" products for you. Or, they'll get to come to the US in pieces when the Communists remove one of their organs for the paying American and sent a single bullet through their brains.

[MHGinTN]

Question: which forms of this 'birth control' do you approve? Abortion? Chemical contraception? Surgical sterilization? Abstinence?

[ArrogantBustard]

Nowhere have I ever advocated anyone receiving handouts from the government for any reason whatsoever. If you want to contracept, that's your affair. It's still evil. If you want to abort, that's currently legal in these Degraded States of America (to our shame, though few actually feel it.) It's still incredibly evil.

Nowhere have I ever advocated anyone, for any reason, receiving handouts from the government, so lay off the sanctimony.

You have not addressed the substance of my posts. Is >10⁶ abortions per year just fine with you? Would you like to see more? Less? Is negative population growth just fine with you? Do you understand the consequences of it?

[A2J]

I hope Bush puts some people on the bench that have a some semblance of morality and compassion and who aren't afraid to call a spade a spade. And that he also puts in place a reasonable immigration policy, that protects this countries culture.

It is a very difficult issue. However, it would seem that the most reasonable policy to take is one of neutrality as this involves the soveriegnty of another nation, although pressure can be brought to bear using economical means, such as threatening China with the loss of most-favored nation status, boycotts, etc., unless they remove their atrocious abortion policy.

[A2J]

That's nice. They'll end up in the Laogai concentration camps and help make those wonderful cheap "Made in China" products for you. Or, they'll get to come to the US in pieces when the Communists remove one of their organs for the paying American and sent a single bullet through their brains.

I understand your frustration although it's misdirected. This couple should have applied beforehand to come to America through the too numerous channels that exist now rather than buck the system when they didn't have a promise of remaining here.

It appears to me that this couple wanted to come here but had to legal means to be accepted and thus they yell "Sterilization!" There hasn't even been a conception must less a child in this story, so why are they claiming what they're claiming?

[A2J]

I will say this. Asylum has been given for far less than the threat of abortion. Knowing that, I don't see why they shouldn't be allowed to stay here.

[Bella_Bru]

I understand that I pay a shitload in taxes because some people (married and single) don't know how to keep their families at a size they can afford. It's not really difficult. If they are Catholic, they have NFP. If they are not Catholic, they have a whole slew of forms of birth control from the humble condom to sterilization.

[dennisw]

I happen to be Jewish

Shalom. But for the purposes of debate, that's completely irrelevant.

Who are you trying to kid? Just take a look at your post # 42. You made it very relevant by throwing Nazi history at me. And only because I'm Jewish. Or maybe you don't know I'm Jewish. What the heck do I know? I only post here.

[Bella_Bru]

Is >10mil abortions per year just fine with you?

Certainly not. Did I say it was? Just because I do not agree that people should be having as many kids as biologically possible, but perhaps not financially possible, how does that mean that 10 mil abortions are ok with me?

[lepton]

Please. Don't try to corrupt reality. China is OVERPOPULATED. So are the mega cities of the 3rd world. Living in elbow to elbow, tin roofed, plywood walled, squalor is immoral and so are the religious policies that lead to this. Life is too precious to be lived this way.

No. China has resources which the people would readily allocate towards having houses made out of more than tin-roofs and plywood, allocated instead to the purposes of an overbearing central government. There is plenty of space for the Chinese in China, it's just inefficiently used - because there is even yet virtually no independent economy. ...And Mega-cities don't get that way because people in them reproduce, as much as because people move into them from elsewhere.

"Life is too precious"? For what, to be allowed to live?

[lepton]

And then are we going to help pay for thweir kids, because, it is soooooo cruel to not help them out with some welfare.

Yep. Socialism is a problem here too.

[lepton]

They are more likely (based on past experiences) to be wage earners and solid American citizens who appreciate family and value freedom

Vigorously and adamantly...unless they get put on Welfare.