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To: nanny
Now do you really think legalizing drugs, porn and prostitution would make it any more rampant. I don't see how. ...

If you you really think our government is really, really trying to do something about these evils, then you have to admit they are totally losing the war. Personaly, I don't think they are trying.

Good question. Some local governments try to keep these things under control, either outright through legal bans, or covertly through zoning regulations. Take that power away from them and I think you would see an increase. Even if states and local governments don't use the powers they have, it's still good that they have the possiblility of dealing with situations that are getting out of hand.

Would it be true that in a wide-open libertarian society one could open up a porn store, brothel or head shop anywhere, even next to a school? And if one tries to prevent this has one taken a big step away from the maximalist libertarian program?

Certainly, prostitution, which is illegal in most states, would increase with legalization and would win greater legitimacy in society if it remained legal. Court rulings restrict what local governments can do about abortion or pornography, but losing the minimum control that they have probably wouldn't help things any.

Drugs are the toughest question. Some people think that legalization and the resulting decrease in price would dry up the crime and vice and predatory behavior of the illegal drug culture, but it's far from clear that this would happen. There are things to be said on both sides. But if you think of old Chinese opium dens, they really weren't a conducive environment for responsible liberty and self-government. The same was true of the collegiate drug culture of the 1960s and 1970s.

Libertarianism rests on an idea of the rational and responsible individual, but one can't assume that all individuals fit this pattern or that libertarian policies would increase the number of such citizens.

64 posted on 11/18/2002 10:14:45 AM PST by x
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To: x; yall
nanny said: Now do you really think legalizing drugs, porn and prostitution would make it any more rampant. I don't see how. ...
If you really think our government is really, really trying to do something about these evils, then you have to admit they are totally losing the war. Personaly, I don't think they are trying.

Good question. Some local governments try to keep these things under control, either outright through legal bans, or covertly through zoning regulations.

No such thing, constitutionally, as a 'legal ban'. Local/state gov's can regulate, but not prohibit possession of property. 'Covert' efforts prove this point.

Take that power away from them and I think you would see an increase. Even if states and local governments don't use the powers they have, it's still good that they have the possiblility of dealing with situations that are getting out of hand.

Things are 'out of hand' because of the 'war'. Regulate drugs as we regulate booze, and the main problems of black market lawlessness dissappear, as the end of alcohol prohibition once taught us.

Would it be true that in a wide-open libertarian society one could open up a porn store, brothel or head shop anywhere, even next to a school?

No one reasonable is advocating such a "wide-open" society. Libertarians advocate a return to our constitutional principles, as written.

And if one tries to prevent this has one taken a big step away from the maximalist libertarian program? Certainly, prostitution, which is illegal in most states, would increase with legalization and would win greater legitimacy in society if it remained legal.

Has it increased in Nevada? - Nevada probably has less open prostitutuion [streetwalkers] than most states with prohibitory type laws that are ignored.

Court rulings restrict what local governments can do about abortion or pornography, but losing the minimum control that they have probably wouldn't help things any.

Again, no one is advocating that local gov's lose their power to regulate criminal conduct.

Drugs are the toughest question. Some people think that legalization and the resulting decrease in price would dry up the crime and vice and predatory behavior of the illegal drug culture, but it's far from clear that this would happen. There are things to be said on both sides. But if you think of old Chinese opium dens, they really weren't a conducive environment for responsible liberty and self-government. The same was true of the collegiate drug culture of the 1960s and 1970s.

Nor is the present 'WOD' "a conducive environment for responsible liberty and self-government."

Libertarianism rests on an idea of the rational and responsible individual, but one can't assume that all individuals fit this pattern or that libertarian policies would increase the number of such citizens.

Your point is a generalization, true of any political idea based on individual liberty. -- Thus:
'Republicanism rests on an idea of the rational and responsible individual, but one can't assume that all individuals fit this pattern or that republican policies would increase the number of such citizens.'

69 posted on 11/18/2002 12:00:19 PM PST by tpaine
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To: x
[Libertarianism rests on an idea of the rational and responsible individual, but one can't assume that all individuals fit this pattern or that libertarian policies would increase the number of such citizens.}

So true. Like all things, the ones who would do right are going to do so without the laws,usually.

I believe prostitution is morally wrong and just totally incomprehensibile to me as a woman - but I have never understood a nation that can condone abortion and keep prostitution illegal. Just makes no sense.

As for the college drug culture of the 60's and 70's, while it may have subsided some in the colleges, I think it has just moved into the offices and board rooms. It is not just the street people who are using this. IF it were, it would not be so profitable.

I don't know the answer, just don't think the governments way of handling it is working and I don't think they intend it to be handled. It is either too lucrative for them or it provides too much cover for trampling civil rights.

74 posted on 11/18/2002 12:19:10 PM PST by nanny
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