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Dole Links License To Drug Test
Charlotte Observer ^ | October 30, 2002 | Mark Johnson

Posted on 10/31/2002 4:57:12 AM PST by Wolfie

Dole Links License To Drug Test

Elizabeth Dole wants to require all teenagers to pass a drug test before getting a driver's license. Dole, the Republican U.S. Senate candidate and a former transportation secretary, has promised to push for a federal law pressuring states to enforce such a measure. "Wouldn't that help them understand how important it is to be drug free?" Dole asked at a recent campaign stop in Washington, N.C. "It's not cool (to abuse drugs). It kills."

Then-President Bill Clinton proposed a nearly identical measure in 1996 while campaigning against Dole's husband, former Sen. Bob Dole, and offered federal grants to states the following year. Campaign officials for Elizabeth Dole said they were unaware of the Clinton initiative.

Dole included the pre-license drug test as part of her "Dole Plan for North Carolina" this year, proposing that teens who test positive must complete a drug counseling course and pass a subsequent test before getting a license.

The test could be bypassed. Parents who don't want their children to take a drug test could just say no and waive the requirement, said Mary Brown Brewer, Dole's communications director.

"You can't solely address illegal drugs from the supply side. You have to address it from the demand side," Brewer said. "When you turn 16, you look so forward to getting that driver's license ... This is a pretty strong incentive not to do anything that would prevent you from getting that driver's license."

Dole has made "less government" a campaign mantra, as have many Republicans, which makes it striking that she would embrace an invasive expansion of government duties and authority. Last year, nearly 62,000 N.C. teens got their first driver's license.

A spokesman for the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration said he was unaware of any states enacting such a program after the Clinton push.

Dole's opponent, Democrat Erskine Bowles, said he would like to talk with law enforcement officials, parents and teenagers before proposing such a measure.

The testing presents practical obstacles and legal questions. State motor vehicles administrations would suddenly face the costs of processing drug tests through a laboratory, not to mention the idea of testing youngsters who haven't been accused of anything. U.S. courts, though, have repeatedly upheld the constitutionality of drug tests.

Several states have zero tolerance laws on alcohol use, requiring that teens lose their license if caught driving with any of alcohol in their blood. The alcohol tests, though, are administered after a youth has been stopped on suspicion of drinking.

Substance-abuse experts said drug testing works as an incentive to keep youths from abusing drugs but likely only until they pass that checkpoint.

"Drug testing has always been a false promise that it would help us somehow by threatening people and make them stop so they wouldn't get into trouble," said John P. Morgan, a physician and City University of New York medical professor who has studied drug testing for 15 years.

He said the vast majority of positive drug tests detect nothing stronger than marijuana, and occasional smokers need only stop for a couple of weeks to pass.

Carl Shantzis, executive director of Substance Abuse Prevention Services in Charlotte, said prevention policy requires follow-up.

"Once teenagers get a license," Shantzis said, "the question is what kind of other incentives are there to keep them from abusing alcohol or other drugs."


TOPICS: Culture/Society
KEYWORDS: bigdruggietears; copernicus2; dopeuberalles; drugtesting; hippiedoperrant; investingstocks; northcarolina; obeyorpay; oldnorthstate; rino; unhelpful
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To: FreeTally
Dole just lost my vote. I was going to hold my nose when I pushed the button for her, now I'm not even going to do that.
261 posted on 10/31/2002 10:03:03 AM PST by Rebelbase
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To: yendu bwam
Yer kidding, right? Taking a drug test is not assuming guilt until you prove your innoent by passing a drug test?

If I cannot have a license until I prove that I am not on drugs, then that is assuming guilt. Period.

I'll tell you what, you can open a checking account as soon as you prove that you do not owe any taxes. We are just trying to prevent tax fraud.

262 posted on 10/31/2002 10:04:03 AM PST by PatrioticAmerican
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To: yendu bwam
"I want the individual rights in the Constitution upheld. Requiring a kid to be drug free to get a drivers license does not infringe on those rights."

It is certainly an unreasonable, petty 'regulation'. - Just one more stake in the heart of our free republic.

Dream on that such political nonsense is valid law. - Its effect is just the opposite. It breeds comtempt for such fiat 'law'.
263 posted on 10/31/2002 10:05:53 AM PST by tpaine
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To: Wolfie
Aah, Under Reagan Liddy was the one who forced all states to raise their drinking age to 21 threatening to withhold highway funds to those states that did not follow her decree.

Such a statist, she is.
264 posted on 10/31/2002 10:05:54 AM PST by swarthyguy
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To: citizenK
If you treat teens PEOPLE like criminals, you are bound to get criminal behavior ( or and a deep disrespect and resentment for the law at the very least) in return.

And that is a recipe for anarchy and or revolt.

265 posted on 10/31/2002 10:05:56 AM PST by clamper1797
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To: yendu bwam
Nice evasion!
266 posted on 10/31/2002 10:06:01 AM PST by philman_36
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To: yendu bwam
Actually, considering how fast heroin and cocaine are processed thru the body, only a test conducted 24 hours after ingestion would redline those users. Pot users, OTH, are the ones who'll be rounded up bigtime.

Just put a Realtime monitoring chip in every new born.
Their diet and substance abuse as they get older can then be monitored. A nice benefit would be kids with nutritional deficiencies could have their mothers confronted as to why they were neglecting kids.

Teenagers eating too much junk and not enough veggies could also be asked to visit the DeptofHomelandSecurity when this condition occurs.
267 posted on 10/31/2002 10:10:21 AM PST by swarthyguy
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To: tpaine
"I want the individual rights in the Constitution upheld. Requiring a kid to be drug free to get a drivers license does not infringe on those rights."

It is certainly an unreasonable, petty 'regulation'. - Just one more stake in the heart of our free republic. Dream on that such political nonsense is valid law. - Its effect is just the opposite. It breeds comtempt for such fiat 'law'.

It may be petty in your mind. It's not in mine (and in the minds of many other parents). And unless shown to be unconstitutional (it won't - since it involves money transfers with string attached to states), it perfectly valid law.

268 posted on 10/31/2002 10:19:22 AM PST by yendu bwam
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To: yendu bwam
I disagree (and so does the Supreme Court). I'm fully in favor of testing kids for drugs before they can attend school. Driving, as Hatteras says, as well as attending school, are privileges. Kids on drugs on the road endanger my family. Kids on drugs in school endangers my kids. The Supreme Court has upheld the constitutionality of testing kids in school with regard to sports and other extracurricular activities. I say, go to it.

Actually, the rationale that the court used to ok the drug testing of kids is the fact that they do not have rights as do adults (at least Rhenquist, Scalia, and Thomas take this view). Others on the court support testing because they are collectivists (especially Souter, Ginsberg, and Stevens). You appear to agree with latter- that there is a collective interest for the society to keep kids who use drugs out of the chess club.

On the face of it, testing kids who participate in extracurricular activities sounds like a great idea - yay! a drug free environment for kids! The fact is, most kids who participate in extracurricular activities are on a college track, get good grades, and are not in general trouble makers. So, if this group of kids fail to exhibit problems related to drug use, or problems in general, why test them in the first place?

It's just like looking for terrorists at the airport - the blanket approach means the blue haired grandma gets the same scrutiny as does the angry Middle Eastern male aged 20 - 40. When you look at everybody, you don't see anyone in particular. Another example: managers who send out memos and create policies affecting entire departments or companies because of the transgressions of a single person. It's bad management, it happens all the time, and it's a bad formula upon which to deal with kids on drugs at school. Teachers, counselors, and administrators know the kids they interact with and they could do more to help our society by focusing on kids with problems rather than testing the kid trying to join the debating team or Key Club.

269 posted on 10/31/2002 10:20:28 AM PST by citizenK
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To: tacticalogic
"Don't workplaces do random drug testing?"

None that I am aware of, or I probably should say none that I have worked for. But again, the performance of my job would not put others at risk such as an airline pilot or bus driver, etc.

This issue is about putting drug testing in place at the "point of entry". Much the same as the issue that came up with the security checks at the NC State Fair. It is unconstitutional to pull people out of a crowd at random to search bags and purses but you can set up a screening point that all patrons would have to go through when you enter the fair grounds.

270 posted on 10/31/2002 10:20:36 AM PST by Hatteras
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To: swarthyguy
Just put a Realtime monitoring chip in every new born. Their diet and substance abuse as they get older can then be monitored. A nice benefit would be kids with nutritional deficiencies could have their mothers confronted as to why they were neglecting kids.

The enormous difference, Swarthyguy, is that kids on drugs driving endanger my family. Kids with nutritional deficiencies do not.

271 posted on 10/31/2002 10:20:55 AM PST by yendu bwam
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To: citizenK
On the face of it, testing kids who participate in extracurricular activities sounds like a great idea - yay! a drug free environment for kids! The fact is, most kids who participate in extracurricular activities are on a college track, get good grades, and are not in general trouble makers. So, if this group of kids fail to exhibit problems related to drug use, or problems in general, why test them in the first place?

It's a false premise. I know (personally) of lots of kids who do extracurricular activities (in particular sports) who are troublemakers, who do drugs, and who endanger my kids. My older son goes to a private high school with very privileged kids. Drug use is common. I do NOT want the kids who influence my kids to be doing drugs. A lot of parents agree with me. A lot of us will vote for drug-testing in schools.

272 posted on 10/31/2002 10:25:00 AM PST by yendu bwam
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To: yendu bwam
Fair enough but until you do a forensic test based on hair samples, the hard drug users will pass urine tests.

THose tests are expensive. EDS tests hair of its new employess.

And they'll just start drinking before tests and resume other drugs after passing.

How often should the tests be? Weekly, monthly, yearly?
273 posted on 10/31/2002 10:28:05 AM PST by swarthyguy
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To: Sir Gawain
He pushed and pushed until he made it happen.
274 posted on 10/31/2002 10:28:12 AM PST by AppyPappy
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To: Rebelbase
"Dole just lost my vote."

So, you are going to vote for Erskin Bowles? I guess it won't matter because any other vote will be the equivalent of a vote for Erskin William Jefferson Bowles...

You're acting like my kid who didn't want to vote for Bob Dole in the student elections because he heard Bob Dole was in favor of school uniforms. I urge you to look at the overall picture.

275 posted on 10/31/2002 10:28:46 AM PST by Hatteras
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To: citizenK
It's just like looking for terrorists at the airport - the blanket approach means the blue haired grandma gets the same scrutiny as does the angry Middle Eastern male aged 20 - 40. When you look at everybody, you don't see anyone in particular. Another example: managers who send out memos and create policies affecting entire departments or companies because of the transgressions of a single person. It's bad management, it happens all the time, and it's a bad formula upon which to deal with kids on drugs at school. Teachers, counselors, and administrators know the kids they interact with and they could do more to help our society by focusing on kids with problems rather than testing the kid trying to join the debating team or Key Club.

If you think the 'good' kids don't do drugs, you're in an outer universe somewhere, citizenK. But that's beside the point. There's no harm to a kid required to pee in a cup. And if we could detect and get rid of terrorists by having everyone pee in a cup, I'd be all for it.

276 posted on 10/31/2002 10:28:56 AM PST by yendu bwam
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To: swarthyguy
How often should the tests be? Weekly, monthly, yearly?

In school, I'd favor random drug tests with a regularity such that kids know they could well be tested.

277 posted on 10/31/2002 10:30:31 AM PST by yendu bwam
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To: yendu bwam
If WE can change any law, then the law is not supreme.

Too simplistic. Change what law? Highway speed limits? When in history do recall a change in the body of the Constitution? We CAN change it but never have. The only thing that has changed is that more and more, with the blessing and support of many like you, the limitations onf the Fed-Gov embodied in the Constitution are ignored for the sake of expedience.

278 posted on 10/31/2002 10:30:46 AM PST by MileHi
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To: philman_36
Nice evasion!

Thanks! I try.

279 posted on 10/31/2002 10:32:59 AM PST by yendu bwam
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To: citizenK
I think it's like a field of dreams - you build it, they will come. If you treat teens like criminals, you are bound to get criminal behavior (or disrespect for the law at the very least) in return.

Baloney, citizenK. Kids want drivers licenses - badly. You raise the bar for them to get those licenses, and they will rise to the level of that bar. (Just like when you require kids to learn to read before graduating...) We turn two-ton killing machines (cars) over to 16-year olds with nary a thought... Driving's a privilege, not a right.

280 posted on 10/31/2002 10:36:45 AM PST by yendu bwam
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