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Scientists Find Possible Dawn-Of-Time Star
Science - Reuters ^ | 10/30/2002

Posted on 10/30/2002 12:34:06 PM PST by Junior

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To: Junior
Scientists Find Possible Dawn-Of-Time Star

Classic example of an over-the-top headline. The popular press is almost useless.

21 posted on 10/30/2002 1:49:13 PM PST by PatrickHenry
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To: Seruzawa
It's got a lot more evidence going for it (background radiation, et al) than any of its contenders.
22 posted on 10/30/2002 1:52:21 PM PST by Junior
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To: Junior
To: f.Christian

Now I follow, thank you. Actually, I don't disagree with this at all since I see the left as abandoning the uncertianty of democracy and majority rule for the assurance technocracy and expert rule.

152 posted on 9/10/02 12:17 PM Pacific by Liberal Classic

and...

To: f.Christian

Dakmar...

I took a few minutes to decipher that post, and I must say I agree with a lot of what you said.

fC...

These were the Classical liberals...founding fathers-PRINCIPLES---stable/SANE scientific reality/society---industrial progress...moral/social character-values(private/personal) GROWTH(limited NON-intrusive PC Govt/religion---schools)!

Dakmar...

Where you and I diverge is on the Evolution/Communism thing. You seem to view Darwin and evolution as the beginning of the end for enlighted, moral civilization, while I think Marx, class struggle, and the "dictatorship of the proletariat" are the true dangers.

God bless you, I think we both have a common enemy in the BRAVE-NWO.

452 posted on 9/7/02 8:54 PM Pacific by Dakmar


23 posted on 10/30/2002 1:58:33 PM PST by f.Christian
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To: Delbert
"Sort of" being the operant phrase, obviously ;)
24 posted on 10/30/2002 2:07:59 PM PST by general_re
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To: Junior; RightWhale
If this star has been in existence for more than 12 billion years, shouldn't it be extinguished now? Isn't that longer than the life expectancy of a star? Or does this kind of star have an unusually long life?
25 posted on 10/30/2002 2:20:05 PM PST by aristeides
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To: Junior
How did this old far...uh, star, get into our galaxy?
26 posted on 10/30/2002 2:23:31 PM PST by onedoug
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To: aristeides
I was wondering that, too. This star is described as a giant star, 4/5 the size of the sun. Hmm. That's still pretty big, but, as stars go, not a giant.
27 posted on 10/30/2002 2:26:24 PM PST by RightWhale
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To: aristeides
Not if the star is some 12 billion light years off on the other side of Pisces. The light would just be getting here.
28 posted on 10/30/2002 2:33:33 PM PST by Dead Corpse
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To: Dead Corpse
But this star is in our galaxy, the Milky Way, and is only 36,000 light years away from us.
29 posted on 10/30/2002 2:39:55 PM PST by aristeides
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To: onedoug
That's a good question, how this old star is in our galaxy, the Milky Way. Isn't the Milky Way a lot younger than 12 billion years?
30 posted on 10/30/2002 2:40:50 PM PST by aristeides
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To: Junior
Ain't nothing wrong with my plumbing. Good for the Scientist I hope more such stars are found. Perhaps one day they will captured and contained for their seemly endless supply of energy.
31 posted on 10/30/2002 2:49:25 PM PST by hottomale
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To: aristeides
If this star has been in existence for more than 12 billion years, shouldn't it be extinguished now? Isn't that longer than the life expectancy of a star? Or does this kind of star have an unusually long life?

The smaller a star, the slower burning and the longer-lived. But I'm surprised a star 4/5 the sun's size can be that old. The sun, at about 5(?) gigayears is thought to be about half done ... Hmmmmm. OK, maybe it just barely works.

32 posted on 10/30/2002 2:49:34 PM PST by VadeRetro
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To: aristeides
Sorry. I missed that part. It would depend on the composition of the star and it mass. A star 4/5 the size of ours, with an extremely high concetration of Hydrogen, would burn much cooler and may not have sufficient mass to convert beyond helium.

If this star masses as much as ours, but has no iron core, it would in fact take up a much larger volume of space. Kinda hard to tell from the crappy article.

If it is that close, and still burning, it must be burning very "cool" indeed. Ours is at around half-life and should be around another 4-5 billion years. If this other star was putting out half the energy ours is, it's "life" would be roughly doubled depending on what it can do with its fuel supply and the by-products.

33 posted on 10/30/2002 2:54:29 PM PST by Dead Corpse
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To: aristeides
Isn't that longer than the life expectancy of a star? Or does this kind of star have an unusually long life?

You guessed the right answer...

There is a strong relationship between a main-sequence star's mass and it's luminosity; as mass of the star gets larger, the luminosity increases very rapidly. This corresponds to higher surface temperatures and correspondingly greater energy production in the star's fusion core, which means the bigger the star, the faster it "burns" its nuclear fuel supply; hence larger stars have shorter life-spans.

Conversely, a main-sequence star of mass comparable to the sun consumes its nuclear fuel slowly enough that it has a typical life-span of about 1010 years. The star described in the article reportedly has a mass of about 0.8 solar masses, and thus its life expentancy is somewhat longer than that that of our sun, probably on the order of about 1.5 x 1010 years. This, BTW, illustrates why we have no examples of Red Giant stars of mass less than 0.8 solar masses; their life expectancy is longer than the current age of the universe, hence, they haven't had enough time to reach the Red Giant stage ("old age") of stellar evolution.

The low luminosity of stars such as this one also explains why it is very difficult to find them; they don't have a very high intrinsic brightness, so unless they are relatively close, they are hard to see.

34 posted on 10/30/2002 2:55:53 PM PST by longshadow
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To: VadeRetro
Depends on if it has sufficient mass to burn helium/carbon/ ect...

Ours is still burning mostly hydrogen. The change-over in a couple billion years ought to be interesting. It'll pretty much end the debate on global warming as well. ;-)

35 posted on 10/30/2002 2:59:40 PM PST by Dead Corpse
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To: longshadow
Yeah. What you said. ;-)
36 posted on 10/30/2002 3:01:48 PM PST by Dead Corpse
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To: Junior
God invented this star 6,000 years ago! It is disguised as something older.

(Falling out of the easy chair)
37 posted on 10/30/2002 5:19:36 PM PST by MonroeDNA
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To: aristeides
maybe its a Volvo
38 posted on 10/30/2002 6:55:32 PM PST by gdc61
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To: aristeides; longshadow; ASA Vet; VadeRetro; general_re
Taken from this essay:

http://nedwww.ipac.caltech.edu/level5/ESSAYS/Carr/carr.html

The term ``Population III'' has been used to describe two types of stars: (1) the ones which form out of the pristine gas left over after cosmological nucleosynthesis and generate the first metals; and (2) the ones which have been hypothesized to provide the dark matter in galactic halos. Stars of the first kind definitely exist, but may not warrant a special name. Those of the second kind may not exist, because galactic halos could also be composed of some sort of elementary particle, but they certainly warrant a special name if they do, and they could have many interesting cosmological consequences. Population III stars of either kind could be pregalactic, but they might also have formed during the first phase of galaxy formation.

It is not necessarily required that Population III stars be pregalactic. Some of the arguments for their having a different initial mass function (IMF) would also apply if they formed protogalactically, and this gives rise to a less radical hypothesis, in which the Population III objects form during the first phases of protogalactic collapse. In this case, the Population III stars or their remnants would be confined to galaxies, whereas they would be spread throughout space in the pregalactic case.

39 posted on 10/30/2002 7:27:06 PM PST by RadioAstronomer
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To: general_re
LOL!!
40 posted on 10/30/2002 8:14:14 PM PST by <1/1,000,000th%
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