Muzzling Conservative Pastors

WorldNetDaily ^ | October 18, 2002 | David Limbaugh

[Egg]

The ostensible dilema of whether or not a church dabbling into politics should remain tax exempt is a problem created by the establishment of the income tax and the IRS. The income tax is an inferior and oppressive form of taxation that should have never been introduced into our government. It's time to switch over to a tax system appropriate for a free people and do away with a system that has allowed the government to wield the sword of the IRS to bully people in unconstitutional ways and to pad the pockets of pals via the tax code.

Go to www.fairtax.org and at least sign up for the e-mail updates. Also, there's still time to register for the annual Americans for Fair Taxation 2002 National Convention coming up November 8-10 in Atlanta, Georgia.

Don't just gripe about the IRS every April 15th; Do something!

[Egg]

The ostensible dilema of whether or not a church dabbling into politics should remain tax exempt is a problem created by the establishment of the income tax and the IRS. The income tax is an inferior and oppressive form of taxation that should have never been introduced into our government. It's time to switch over to a tax system appropriate for a free people and do away with a system that has allowed the government to wield the sword of the IRS to bully people in unconstitutional ways and to pad the pockets of pals via the tax code.

Go to www.fairtax.org and at least sign up for the e-mail updates. Also, there's still time to register for the annual Americans for Fair Taxation 2002 National Convention coming up November 8-10 in Atlanta, Georgia.

Don't just gripe about the IRS every April 15th; Do something!

[F.J. Mitchell]

Tax exempt status obviously saves Churches a lot of money, but it also allows the government to dictate what can and cannot be said in a house dedicated to truth and to the glory and leadership of God. Tax-exempt surrenders to the government, more power than God.

Churches should refuse their tax exempt status and trust God to make up the difference. Where did the idea that God must go begging to the government come from? It sure didn't come from God, or from people of faith.

Just say no! to tax-exemption.

[Alex Murphy]

The ostensible dilema of whether or not a church dabbling into politics should remain tax exempt is a problem created by the establishment of the income tax and the IRS.

I completely disagree. The ostensible dilemna of whether or not a church dabbling into politics should remain tax exempt is a problem created by the unspoken assertion that the State has pre-eminence over the Church. Thus, tax-exempt status is something that must be applied for to - or withheld by - the State, in an act asserting the State's unspoken doctrine of pre-eminence.

Further, the State's tax rate on citizens is actually higher than the Old Testament's requirement of a tithe (10%) to be paid to God via the Church. And the State requires it's money to be collected first, in the form of withholding. Pre-eminence again.

The State won't stop muzzling the churches in the United States, until the State recognizes the pre-eminence of God over the State first, and the co-sovereignty of the Church over it's citizens in addition to the State's.

[RAT Patrol]

I love David Limbaugh!

The liberals view of the Establishment Clause protects religious freedom about as much as a pillow pressed over the face and nose of an individual protects their freedom to breath air (right to life). They purpose to smother religion, nothing more.

[f.Christian]

50 years of PC... tyranny!

[G Larry]

Dem CANDIDATES seem to be able to take over any pulpit to promote their candidacy....with impunity!

[gdani]

This is all hogwash.

Pastors of 501(c)(3) churches are perfectly free to express their opinions about moral issues, politics, public policy, etc.

What they aren't able to do is to endorse candidates, engage in any significant amount of lobbying, etc.

This is the same for ALL 501(c)(3) organizations, whether they are a church, the NRA or Planned Parenthood (which ruins the Establishment Clause argument the author is trying to get away with).

If 501(c)(3) churches don't like the restrictions they can start paying taxes like everyone else or they can incorporate themselves as a 501(c)(4) or even a PAC like the NRA or Planned Parenthood or any thousands of other non-profits do.

Before houses of worship were complaining that they aren't treated like everyone else (re: charitable choice provisions/policies). Now they're arguing that they should be treated differently than everyone else (i.e. let us campaign but don't let any other non-profits).

Well, which is it?

[f.Christian]

100 years of PC... tyranny!

[Alex Murphy]

So, I take it you're arguing for the pre-eminence of the State over the Church?

So what happens to the State, if the Church's object of worship turns out to be a) real, b) real big/powerful/etc, and c) jealous?

[gdani]

So, I take it you're arguing for the pre-eminence of the State over the Church?

The Church can avoid any such debate by simply not registering as a 501(c)(3). Nobody forces them to.

I do think that (non-registered) churches should pay taxes just like the rest of us. There's no such thing as a free pass for churches.

[american spirit]

To add a little more to your observations, it's as simple as God created man, man created gov't. The created cannot be greater than the creator however in the case of 501C-3 churches they have in effect become corporations granted as a "privilege" by the state/fedgov. This relationship gives the state the ability to control the activities of the pastor/church in exchange for tax advantages. They've made a deal with the proverbial devil and end up suffering in silence because of their desire for tax privileges. That's why the gov't is deathly afraid of churches who operate the old fashioned way.

[moneyrunner]

Amendment 1.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; …. Etc.

Hmmmm. Nothing here about “except if you have a tax exempt status you can’t talk about politics in church.” Those silly Founders. Well, we’ve fixed their oversight, haven’t we?

You see, Churches are not like other tax exempt organizations, they have their own amendment.

[moneyrunner]

You misunderstand the reasons churches have been granted tax exemption. It is not due to their charitable work. It is because the power to tax is the power to destroy, and churches, due to the first amendment, are freed of government interference.

That is, until Lyndon Johnson got his little law passed.

[RonF]

gdani is correct. Both liberal and conservative pastors are free to deliver themselves of opinions on all the issues of the day. Churches, or any other 501(c)(3) organization, cannot act as a political entity, endorsing and campaigning for candidates, etc.

I'd love it if someone could point out to me any example of a church losing it's 501(c)(3) status because it's pastor made remarks of any kind during a sermon.

[gdani]

Hmmmm. Nothing here about “except if you have a tax exempt status you can’t talk about politics in church.” Those silly Founders. Well, we’ve fixed their oversight, haven’t we?

You see, Churches are not like other tax exempt organizations, they have their own amendment.

Please explain how restricting the political activities of all (religious or not) 501(c)(3) organizations is a violation of the Establishment Clause. As I said before, churches are perfectly free to talk about any amount or type of politics, public policy, etc that they want. They are not allowed to endorse candidates or engage in electioneering.

People that claim that pastors of 501(c)(3) churches are prevented from discussing politics while at the pulpit are either misinformed or are deliberately lying in an attempt to gain an advantage that non-religious 501(c)(3) groups would and do not have.

[Zack Nguyen]

To add a little more to your observations, it's as simple as God created man, man created gov't.

Your post is most thoughtful. I had to correct this one thing. Government is of course, in a physical sense, run by men and set up by men (so are churches), but civil government is God's creation. Check out Romans 13 for more on this.

[american spirit]

If 501C-3 pastors have all this supposed freedom to discuss politics or be critical of the gov't. why aren't they screaming about partial birth abortions, the gaia training in public schools, the elevated stautus of homosexuality in our culture and many other ills that we suffer from. Are they just gutless, uninformed, just don't care about anything except their current building project or all the above? The only answer I seem to get is that they don't want to "offend" attendees to their services which really hacks me off because their silence on all these issues SURE THE HELL OFFENDS ME!

[Zack Nguyen]

I'd love it if someone could point out to me any example of a church losing it's 501(c)(3) status because it's pastor made remarks of any kind during a sermon.

You won't find a single example. Churches walk on eggshells and act like nervous nellies for no reason. One church has lost its tax exemption (The Church at Pierce Creek), and I have not examined the case but apparently they took out a newspaper ad and told people not to vote for Bill Clinton.

[Arthur McGowan]

A couple of years ago, a church lost its tax-exempt status (or was subjected to an IRS anal exam costing the church thousands of dollars), because there was a sign on the front lawn that said, "Vote Pro-Life." In the Clinton era, that was political speech; but when Algore, the Rapist, or Hillary! preached from the pulpit of a Black church and took the collection with them out the back door, that wasn't political speech.