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IRISH TRAVELERS - Experts shed light on reclusive, nomadic clans that roam the country
Associated Press ... live news feed | September 25, 2002 | LISA FALKENBERG

Posted on 09/25/2002 7:58:25 AM PDT by NYer

DALLAS (AP) _ The tearful testimonial Madelyne Gorman Toogood gave in front of glaring TV cameras after she was videotaped beating her daughter was starkly uncharacteristic of the reclusive, media-shy Irish Travelers culture to which she belongs, experts say. Toogood, who was caught beating her 4-year-old daughter, Martha, in a department store parking lot, said she is a member of the clannish, nomadic culture of Irish descendants, most of whom came to the United States as refugees during the potato famine in the 1840s. ``By nature, they're very reclusive people,'' said Joe Livingston, a South Carolina state investigator who has been tracking Travelers for nearly two decades. ``They tend to shy away from publicity.''

Some law enforcement experts who have studied the culture paint it as a secret society, fond of material wealth evidenced by gaudy jewelry and new vehicles. Police often associate Travelers with scams involving fraudulent home repair that target the elderly. They tend to use aliases, carry bogus identification cards, and avoid contact with non-Travelers, whom they call ``country folk,'' authorities said.

But professors and academics said the reclusiveness is a defense mechanism against stereotypes and the ancient persecution that has haunted nomadic peoples throughout history. Travelers, who may be Irish, English, or Scottish, have no more criminals among them than any other ethnic culture, experts said. ``If there were, they could not sustain their living,'' said Larry Otway, who began studying Irish Travelers in 1977 and has worked as a paralegal and adviser on court cases involving Scottish travelers. What the clans in the culture do share, Otway said, is a nomadic lifestyle, a language called ``Scelta'' with roots in Gaelic and Romani, an almost ``pathologic'' devotion to Catholicism, and an anti-bureaucratic form of self government that he describes as a ``consensus democracy.''

The largest Traveler settlement is a group of 3,000 in Murphy Village, S.C., experts said. Toogood is believed to belong to the Greenhorn Carrolls, a Traveler group in the Fort Worth area. Estimates of the U.S. Traveler population vary from 20,000 to 100,000. Ian F. Hancock, a professor at the University of Texas who wrote the Irish Travelers entry for the Encyclopedia of the South, said a distraught Toogood called him Thursday seeking advice. ``She was scared to turn herself in because she knows very well how the police feel about the Irish Travelers,'' said Hancock, who has a reputation as a sympathizer of the group. ``She didn't think she'd get a fair shake and she knew she'd been rough with the child.''

Toogood, who also has two young sons, remains free on a $5,000 bond and is scheduled to appear in court Oct. 7. If convicted, she faces up to three years in prison. She was scheduled to have a 90-minute supervised meeting with her daughter on Tuesday but the child, who is in foster care, was sick. An attorney for the state said Toogood would be allowed to see Martha on Wednesday if the girl has recovered from the flu.

Hancock and other academics said they believe Toogood's case has been sensationalized by the media because of her ethnicity. ``As bad as what she did, and it's inexcusable, I still think there's an awful lot of profiling going on,'' Hancock said. ``Very much is being made of her ethnic background. If she were German American or Italian American, would that even be an issue?''

AP-ES-09-25-02 0610EDT


TOPICS: Activism/Chapters; Business/Economy; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Extended News; Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events; Philosophy; US: Indiana; US: South Carolina; US: Texas
KEYWORDS: abuse; baby; camera; crime; gypsies; gypsy; irishtravelers; nomads; scam; toogood; travelers; violence
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1 posted on 09/25/2002 7:58:25 AM PDT by NYer
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To: Siobhan; american colleen; sinkspur; livius; Lady In Blue; Salvation; Polycarp; narses; ...
What the clans in the culture do share, Otway said, is a nomadic lifestyle, a language called ``Scelta'' with roots in Gaelic and Romani, an almost ``pathologic'' devotion to Catholicism, and an anti-bureaucratic form of self government that he describes as a ``consensus democracy.''

Have any of you encountered these people at mass?

2 posted on 09/25/2002 8:01:21 AM PDT by NYer
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To: NYer
I think I HAVE encountered people like these, but not as Catholics, and not in the East. Right here in California, and about 35 years ago. I was living in a small house on a lot with a larger house, and there were about twelve people living there. I was never able to discern who "belonged" to whom; they were all just "there."

They had a decidedly "midwestern" air about them; sort of like offspring of the "dust bowl" immigrants of the thirties. One morning they were just gone. Vanished.

Upon inspecting the "garage" areas, we found thousands of cancelled checks, and unwritten checkbooks, with hundreds of different names. It was very weird.

3 posted on 09/25/2002 8:08:29 AM PDT by EggsAckley
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To: NYer
Click on Gypsy Criminal Groups at left. The entire site is a keeper.
4 posted on 09/25/2002 8:08:50 AM PDT by ofMagog
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To: NYer
an almost ``pathologic'' devotion to Catholicism

AP connects the dots:

1) Pathologic devotion to Catholicism = devout Catholic

2) Pathologic devotion to Catholicism = nomadic theif

3) Devout Catholic = nomadic thief.

Q.E.D.

5 posted on 09/25/2002 8:10:53 AM PDT by Aquinasfan
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To: NYer
No. Can't say that I have. Although, I do know a fair number of people of Irish heritage who have gaudy or plainly bad taste (one of my grandmothers for one).

Is this the American version of gypsies?
6 posted on 09/25/2002 8:12:14 AM PDT by Desdemona
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To: NYer
Hancock and other academics said they believe Toogood's case has been sensationalized by the media because of her ethnicity.

Arggggh, it has nothing to do with ethnicity! It's the violence, the crime. Duh, Mr. Hancock. Liberal academic types just can't drop their race card mentalities.

7 posted on 09/25/2002 8:19:01 AM PDT by Lil'freeper
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To: Aquinasfan
This lady is Catholic like "Catholics for Choice" are Catholic.
8 posted on 09/25/2002 8:20:01 AM PDT by Andyman
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To: NYer
"Hancock and other academics said they believe Toogood's case has been sensationalized by the media because of her ethnicity."

Boy, oh boy! Playing the race card. From my tv news sources: CNN, MSNBC and Fox, they all ignored her Irish Traveller connection, except for the past couple of days on Fox.

9 posted on 09/25/2002 8:21:31 AM PDT by Kermit
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To: Desdemona
Travelers are like gypsies. Either one can follow you into a revolving door and come out in front of you.
10 posted on 09/25/2002 8:25:46 AM PDT by Wurlitzer
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To: ofMagog
Very cool the way that page opens and closes
11 posted on 09/25/2002 8:27:16 AM PDT by paul51
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To: NYer
I don't know if my facts are correct, but I think I saw a "Dateline NBC" or some other "newsmagazine" show do a story on "Travellers", such as seem to be described here. It also included a pagent-like event where young girls were dressed IMHO as 20's flapper girls and paraded around to be considered for future matramonial prospects. If this was a different group of "travellers", please forgive me. If not, this treating of young girls as virtual property shows how this kind of beating could be seen as okay, and all those saying she should go to a family member need to think again.
12 posted on 09/25/2002 8:27:26 AM PDT by Kazuki
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To: Wurlitzer
So, are they anything like the gypsies on the Paris Metro? I had to slap a hand once when it found its way into my purse, which was purposefully empty.
13 posted on 09/25/2002 8:29:14 AM PDT by Desdemona
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To: NYer
Hancock and other academics said they believe Toogood's case has been sensationalized by the media because of her ethnicity. ``As bad as what she did, and it's inexcusable, I still think there's an awful lot of profiling going on,'' Hancock said. ``Very much is being made of her ethnic background. If she were German American or Italian American, would that even be an issue?''

Of all the scurrilous crap for them to end the story with. If the "case has been sensationalized by the media" it's because it's on video. Any beating on video, especially of an apparent innocent (like, most clearly, a 4-year-old) is going to get a lot of airplay.

Now, because most people have never even heard of her ethnic background (and I would argue that Irish Travelers are a behavioural subset of an ethnicity), it gets some mention. But that's not "profiling." Obviously, she wasn't videotaped because of ethnic profiling or bigotry on the part of the mall, and she wasn't looked for or arrained because of her ethnicity either.

14 posted on 09/25/2002 8:29:19 AM PDT by DWPittelli
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To: Lil'freeper
Children are beaten to death every day, and it never gets any attention. It seems to me that it wasn't the violence or the crime, it was the video camera.
15 posted on 09/25/2002 8:32:38 AM PDT by stop_fascism
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To: Aquinasfan
What the article should have pointed out was that they are devoted to a perverted distortion of Catholicism which permits them to steal by direct permission from Jesus. From what I've read, they are not affiliated with any church and they pass the cult on through oral teaching from generation to generation.

16 posted on 09/25/2002 8:33:17 AM PDT by Oregon W.oman
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To: stop_fascism
That too!
17 posted on 09/25/2002 8:33:37 AM PDT by Lil'freeper
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To: NYer
Travelers, who may be Irish, English, or Scottish, have no more criminals among them than any other ethnic culture, experts said. ``If there were, they could not sustain their living,'' said Larry Otway

Oh come on. Any nomadic, insular society will have more criminals precisely because such a lifestyle makes detection much less likely. This is the same reason the anonymity of the city allows for more con-men and other criminals who face their victim, whereas stable, non-nomadic, smaller societies will have very few con-men, robbers and other visible criminals, because people know each other, where they live and how to find them.

18 posted on 09/25/2002 8:34:13 AM PDT by DWPittelli
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To: paul51
Toogood's "confession" is a part of their culture as defined in the above link:

"Regarding non-Gypsy law: They are obeyed but they are not complied with. Gypsies never fight against constituted authority; they simply agree to do what they are told to do, pretend to accept the assumptions of the stronger party and then, in their time-honored way, they keep on doing what they have always done..."

19 posted on 09/25/2002 8:34:33 AM PDT by ofMagog
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To: Desdemona
"So, are they anything like the gypsies on the Paris Metro? I had to slap a hand once when it found its way into my purse, which was purposefully empty. "

You are obviously a smart person to have emptied you purse. I don't know enough about either group to say anything other than they have more than their share of Con-Men and Con-Women.

20 posted on 09/25/2002 8:34:48 AM PDT by Wurlitzer
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